Game Needs BR 4.5

Suggestions Battle Rating
1

Enlisted currently needs a new Battle Rating that sits between BR4 and BR5. Why is this necessary? Because there is a decisive gap between the current BR3 and BR4, and especially between BR4 and BR5. What do we mean by a “gap”? To begin with, let us look at representative BR3–5 tanks for the four current factions and compare their Battle Ratings in War Thunder.

BR3
Soviet: T-34 1941 (War Thunder BR: 4.0)
Allies: M4A2 (War Thunder BR: 3.7)
Axis: Pz. IV H (War Thunder BR: 3.7)
Japan: Chi-Nu II (War Thunder BR: 4.3)

BR4
Soviet: T-34-85 D-5T (War Thunder BR: 5.3)
Allies: M4A1 76W (War Thunder BR: 5.0)
Axis: Panther A/G (War Thunder BR: 6.0) / Tiger I H1 (War Thunder BR: 5.7)
Japan: Chi-To (War Thunder BR: 4.7)

BR5
Soviet: IS-2 1944 (War Thunder BR: 6.7)
Allies: Super Pershing (War Thunder BR: 6.7)
Axis: Tiger II (War Thunder BR: 6.7)
Japan: Ho-Ri (War Thunder BR: 7.3)

While BR3 and BR5 tanks are relatively well balanced thanks to having similar War Thunder BRs, it should be obvious that BR4 tanks suffer from a decisive imbalance. The War Thunder BRs of BR3 and BR5 tanks are kept within a range of about ±0.6, whereas BR4 alone spans a range of up to ±1.3 in War Thunder BR. This is clearly abnormal.

The balance gap between BR3 and BR5 is also extremely apparent when it comes to semi-automatic rifles. Under the current system, moving from BR3 to BR4 does not bring a dramatic improvement in performance for semi-auto rifles, while the performance gap between BR4 and BR5 is overwhelming and impossible to bridge. In practice, BR3 semi-automatic rifles generally have around 10-round magazines with clip loading (excluding the SVT), while BR4 semi-auto rifles merely switch to magazine loading with little real improvement. In contrast, BR5 semi-automatic rifles feature roughly 20-round magazines and full-auto fire, making it completely impossible for BR4 rifles to compete.

To break this situation, it is necessary to introduce a BR4.5 that sits between BR4 and BR5. More precisely, this means “adding one more BR tier between BR4 and BR5 and expanding the system to BR6,” but for ease of understanding within the existing BR framework, this proposal will refer to it as “BR4.5.”

For tanks, the new system should look like this.

  • BR3 tanks should correspond to approximately War Thunder BR 3–4.
  • BR4 tanks should correspond to approximately War Thunder BR 4–5.
  • BR4.5 tanks should correspond to approximately War Thunder BR 5–6.
  • BR5 tanks should correspond to approximately War Thunder BR 6–7.

Here are some concrete examples.

BR3
Soviet: T-34 1941 (War Thunder BR: 4.0)
Allies: M4A2 (War Thunder BR: 3.7)
Axis: Pz. IV H (War Thunder BR: 3.7)
Japan: Chi-Nu II (War Thunder BR: 4.3)

BR4
Soviet: T-34-85 D-5T (War Thunder BR: 5.3)
Allies: M4A1 76W (War Thunder BR: 5.0)
Axis: VK 3002 (M) (War Thunder BR: 5.0)
germ_vk_3002m
Japan: Chi-To (War Thunder BR: 4.7)

BR4.5
Soviet: IS-1 (War Thunder BR: 5.7)
Allies: M4/T26 (War Thunder BR: 6.0)
Axis: Panther A (War Thunder BR: 6.0) / Tiger I E (War Thunder BR: 6.0)
Japan: Chi-Ri (War Thunder BR: 5.7)

BR5
Soviet: T-44-100 (War Thunder BR: 7.0)
Allies: Super Pershing (War Thunder BR: 6.7)
Axis: Tiger II (War Thunder BR: 6.7)
Japan: Ho-Ri (War Thunder BR: 7.3)

By expanding the BR system by one tier in this way, the difference in War Thunder BR within each Enlisted BR becomes roughly around 1.0, greatly improving match balance. It also resolves the current issue where “BR4 alone is excessively compressed.”

Semi-automatic rifles should likewise be structured as follows under the new system.

  • BR3 semi-auto rifles have 10-round magazines with clip loading.
  • BR4 semi-auto rifles have 10-round magazines with magazine loading.
  • BR4.5 semi-auto rifles have large 20–30 round magazines and semi-auto fire.
  • BR5 semi-auto rifles retain 20-round magazines with full-auto fire, as they do now.

This would clearly differentiate semi-automatic rifles by performance at each BR, unlike the current situation, while also reducing the performance gap between tiers. As a concrete example, the German rifle tree would look like this (only Germany is shown here, but other nations’ trees should naturally receive similar changes and additions).

BR3: G41 (10-round magazine, clip loading)
BR4: G43 (10-round magazine, magazine loading)
BR4.5: G43 with 25-round magazine (25 rounds, semi-auto)
g43-dauerfeuerichtung-a-selective-fire-gewehr-43-with-a-v0-1igvz14zr1m91

BR5: FG 42 (20-round magazine, full-auto)

The tanks and semi-automatic rifles listed above are only examples. Introducing BR4.5 would allow for fundamental balance improvements to many other weapons and vehicles as well. For example, under the current system, the KV-1 (ZiS-5) is too strong at BR3 but too weak at BR4, an unsolvable situation. Adding BR4.5 would make it possible to resolve this issue. Therefore, Enlisted needs BR4.5. This would allow BR3 and above to be properly adjusted and differentiated in terms of weapon and vehicle balance, fixing the problems of the current BR system.

Do you support introducing a new BR tier between the current BR4 and BR5 and expanding the BR system?
  • Yes
  • No
0 voters
Spoiler

That said, to be honest, I do not expect this proposal to be accepted. Even if it were well received, Gaijin—having devoted all of its resources to War Thunder infantry and effectively half-abandoned Enlisted—is unlikely to implement such a large-scale change. Moreover, introducing a new BR and expanding the tech trees would likely provoke backlash due to matchmaking concerns and the need to research new equipment. Even if the idea is correct from a balance perspective, considering the practical issues involved, this proposal would be extremely difficult to realize.

As a fundamental premise, I have never seen a proposal of this scale accepted on the forums in the first place

3 Likes
2

This is just BR6 but would require more coding from the devs.

5 Likes
3

I’ve been saying that BR6 should be a thing for a while now and this seems fairly similar. Though it would be confusing for the BR system to go 1, 2, 3, 4, 4.5, and 5 instead of 1-6.

I also think that a score requirement system for vehicles would be better for balancing instead of trying to replicate War Thunder with the way they place vehicles in specific BRs.

1 Like
4

Have you read the content of my post?

The name “BR4.5” is nothing more than a provisional label chosen for ease of understanding. This post is essentially discussing the introduction of BR6, and no one is saying, “Let’s ultimately add BR4.5.”

1 Like
5

I got confused with the “adding a new tier between 4 and 5”, cause there’s 2 BRs worth of BR5 that you could be trying to situate stuff in between. But it’s not like I voted No to this, they’ve added so much new content that BR5 needs something done to it in order to decompress the sheer amount of new, meta stuff that’s been added.

I also think that the vehicle balance could be improved with a score requirement system instead of trying to do what War Thunder does with their BRs. Enlisted and War Thunder vehicles can’t exactly be made to correspond with their BRs since the vehicle combat isn’t the same.

2 Likes
6

It’d also help revive the current BR4. No more Full Auto spam against 10 round semi autos

7

0/0 matchmaking takes care of that. As it is right now, BR4 doesn’t really exist, and when I play with any BR4 weapons, I make sure they are capable of playing against BR5 opposition, since I almost ALWAYS get BR5. Are their even enough quality weapons to actually have an all BR4 game? :thinking:
IV

3 Likes
8

Expand the BR but the suggestion requires some polishing.
First, WT BR is not to be served as a precise reference for Enlisted BR, or we will have BR1 StrumPanzer or early Pz.IV, as well as a maybe BR3 Puma.
Then, BRx AT weapons should be able to penetrate tanks at BRx+1, including those at BR1 and BR2. This can be made with a few HEAT or APCR shells or a higher BR gun with less HE shells.
SVT can be clip loaded in this way: as the lack of spare mags, you got 1 spare mag and other ammo are clips.
BR3 against BR2 matches got the same problem with BRV vs BR4.

9

I have been playing around with this idea for more than a year now, but your timing is good since Japan only just recently received enough vehicles to be able to cover one more BR.

I would also like to point out that War Thunder and Enlisted BRs are NOT related. The example I always like to bring up is the 15cm SIG which is BR 1.0 in WT but BR3 in Enlisted. So tanks should not be balanced based on WT BRs, though your assumption is correct and tank balance would benefit from a new BR between BR3-BR4.

Furthermore, SMG balance could be tweaked as well by adding the BR between BR2 and BR3, thus moving over performing BR2 SMGs up and weak BR3 SMGs down.
(Guns like Type 100 (early) and M1A1 Thompson)

However I strongly remind everyone that adding a new BR, we can certainly wave goodbye to ever seeing no up/down tiers in the game.

4 Likes
11

This won’t fix the gap, there will always be someone weaker, with your setup, 3 will suffer from 4 and you won’t be able to do anything about it, balance is a fragile thing, they slightly strengthened the BR supposedly to fight the higher, but immediately an even greater gap appeared between those who are lower

Let’s say we separated 4 from 5, which means 4 will now constantly play with 3, and it is 3 that will suffer, 4 will have nowhere to go and will constantly be with 3, in turn 2 will oppress 1 since it is left without 3, as we know now 3 is busy with 4, this is as an example and he treats all br

12

Bruh, did you even read the post?
What you are saying is unrelated.

1 Like
13

Dude))
There’s a BR buff, and + another BR, 4 won’t play with 5, it’ll be 4.5 instead. Where do you think 4 will go? Right, with 3.

For example, if we buff 4, 3 suffers even more.

What don’t you understand?

14

There isnt, BR4 would have tanks moved up to BR4.5, thats a BR nerf.
The powergap is already the smallest between BR3 and BR4, even if BR3 gets uptiered it wont suffer nearly as much as BR4 would suffers with a BR4.5 uptier.

Im not sure why BR3 should be entitled not to get uptiers.

3 Likes
15

Sometime I wonder how diffrent enlisted would be if the devs did not side with the part of the playerbase that said that 10 BRs are to much but stayed with the initally proposed BR 10 model that would most likely include±2 BR.

In the short run it would have most likely been worse but in the long run it would have allowed so much more.

16

With 10 BRs things would be roughly the same but we could get hard uptier, uptier and downtier at the same time and hard downtier.

IMO, this way its a bit less toxic for new players on BR1 and a bit more toxic for BR4.

17

surely there are better options than VK 30.02 M and M4/T26, right?

18

While the maximum gap would stay the same the in the worst case it would also allow the MM to add soft up- and down tiers which are way more consistantly fair than the 50/50 chance to get fucked system we currently have and limit the amount of gear stuck between BRs.

19

For Axis, Italian and Hungarian tanks could probably be added, otherwise captured T-34 and KV-1 tanks that were modified by Germans (so they are quasi unique) are an option.
Same goes for Allies, that could get British tanks.

20

looking back, 10BRs stretched the game too much back then, its been 2 and a half years and lots of content was added since. Looking back it makes more sense now than it did back then to be honest.

21

As is well known, if a game is too fair, it will reveal the differences between humans and humans, and the game itself will cease to exist.