Building defences does not fit the pace of the gameplay

The defences - I am mostly referring to the Sandbags, Tank traps and barb wire.

The building feature does not fit the pace and chaos of the SQUAD mode.
As an engineer, it takes way too long to build the defences that can be torn down and destroyed with explosives very fast.
The amount of defences that 1 engineer can build is way too low.
The defences take a long time to build, while providing a very small impact on the fast paced gameplay.
The defences are really easy to destroy and overtake.

I think the defences need to be changed to fit the pace of the rest of the game better. I think the designed gameplay differs from the real gameplay, because the game is very easy and fast paced.
The time I spend building defences, setting up sandbags and then barb wire around them, I could kill enemies in this time. 100% of the time, the effort it takes to build defences is unrewarded and does not provide a big enough advantage in gameplay to warrant it.
I rather just place my rally point and ammo spots and shoot at the enemies, which always provides a more impactful result to the battle.

My suggestion to fix this issue:

  • Faster build times for defences (Sandbags, barb wire)
  • Stronger defences that can be repaired
  • Ability to stack 2 sandbags on top of one another (snap a sandbag on top of another, this should be scripted so the sandbags don’t end up floating, when the bottom one is destroyed, perhaps link them and link their health)
  • Bigger limit of defences for every player and smaller cost of defences so every engineer unit can build more

I think with some of these changes, the defences would fit the fast paced and easy gameplay this game has.
Currently (0.2.1.8) the defences do not fit the rest of the gameplay very well.

11 Likes

I agree with stacking sandbags would be a good idea but not with everything else.
It depends much on what game mode and where it is you are trying to defend but any defenses build defending an indoor cap point (in invasion or assault) are an absolute bear. Contrary to what you state, they have a very large impact on gameplay. It would be a bad idea to increase the limit of defenses. They are already very very strong if used right. (the underpass of HG strasse for one example)
Two engineers can effectively make a cap into an impenetrable fortress if they know what they are doing. It would be wrong to give this power to only 1 player and 1 engineer. Build time is also reduced as a perk for top level engineers

3 Likes

Build time is fine as-is but sandbags are still too fragile.

I set up sandbags up in a tower, some artillery landed on the ground way below it, and it still collapsed all of the sandbags somehow.

8 Likes

No.

Faster would turn this already arcade ww2 game into a fortnight ww2 game. I don’t want to lower the average age of players…

Again… this would look like fortnight.

6 Likes

It would be great if Gaijin would expand the abilities of the enigneer to build more sophisticated defences, and even to add a special gameplay mode where for example two, or three players with engineer squads would be tasked with building defences of points further back behind the front line in preparation for enemy assault between 2-5 minutes, or however long it takes the enemy to capture the first point.
In that time rest of the players would be fighting over the first point.

The defenders would have a expanded ability to build basically everything (every point and line of defence would have their own pool of points), but the attackers would have and extra tank, and aircraft.
This is how I would see it at least.

Personally i loved using the engineer to build defenses, but I mostly stopped because you lose more points by doing so than you could gain, and it is to easy to destroy either barbed wire, or sandbags on mass. The pace of building would not be such an issue it everyone didn’t have explosives of which a single one could destroy all of it.
This makes them de-facto ‘one-time use’ defences.

Barbed wire especially should not be this sensitive to explosives, and players shouldn’t be able to destroy it so quickly.
Also giving the player extra set of points defences (that excludes weapons, ammo boxes and spawn points) might be a good idea, because high level engineers build almost exclusively weapons, because it doesn’t make sense to spend points on anything else.

2 Likes

all we need is 30 - 60 seconds of prep time to set up defences and stop people loading into matches that have already started, and sandbags that don’t break when you gaze upon them, this would sort out the whole attacker imbalance since engis would actually have time to put up defences. It’s fucking shambles when i load into a game that’s already lost the first point, yet another basic multiplayer no-brainer that enlisted lacks

7 Likes

There’s usually enough prep time to get some quick fortifications up at the very least.

One battle yesterday I had enough time to expend all of my building materials to extensively turtle up the objective with sandbags behind a maze of wire… and then proceed to defend on my own because my teammates still couldn’t find the objective.

2 Likes

This is where upgrading your engineers to have good builder perks as well as managing your idle engineers to build things while you are doing your own thing can save a lot of time.

My one complaint is that builders will ignore your build orders if too many enemies are nearby, but you can get a lot built fast when they work esp when using a proper engineer squad.

I think the build times are fine. Sandbags, barb wires and ammo boxes can be built really fast. Like many have said before me, I wouldn’t like this game to turn into Fortnite.

This game isn’t really strict with the build mechanics and you can move while building something and you can keep building even through obstacles, so building while defending / attacking objective is actually quite easy. You just need to be quick placing those buildings.

What I would like to be fixed is ammo boxes that are near sandbags. If an ammo box is placed near sandbags it’s quite frustrating to try to resupply from that ammo box. The fill ammo prompt just won’t appear. It just keeps offering the prompt to destroy sandbags >:(

There is another way to look at this problem.

There is definitely a bit of disparity in how the construction put in place by engineers is effectively removed from the game vs the time it takes to “spawn it in”

Now that I’ve played Enlisted for a while, I can “adjust” my game play to match a given scenario, particularly when contrasting the engineer roles in the offensive vs defensive roles.

When on the offensive I tend to focus on rally points, sandbag walls at key points, AT guns covering key choke points and AA guns in good infantry suppression locs. The build time for these is not unreasonable within the dynamic context of the game. There are games that do turn run and gun, but by and large I was able to “shift” the structures forward by dismantling them.

When on the defensive side, which is the main point of the article, the rate of build is not proportionate to the allowances of the game play.
The initial work around, particularly for experienced players is to begin reinforcing the second line of defence, rather than trying to run for the immediate cap under pressure. The same can be done for the 3rd and so on, as long as players have a clue as to how the game is likely to play out.
The snag is in the build points and so you need several players with a clue to properly set up a defensive perimeter around an objective.

The issue of “specific explosive effects” being able to reduce the obstacles is still unresolved. The rate of destruction due to Arty strikes, Air strikes is specifically disproportionate and I guess that’s where the Devs need to make some assessments in how fast they want the game to progress. As it stands the contribution made by engineers is situational at best and often marginalised through the ubiquitous over issue of det packs.

Perhaps some tweaking of the damage models and partial degradation of obstacles is desired, even if its somewhat artificial. Certainly HE weapons should have a high level of degradation on sandbags and wire, but less so on anti-tank traps. AP rounds could arguably be the opposite by way of an abstraction. This might prolong some of the lifespan of obstacles, certainly the ability of the engineers to dismantle them at a quicker rate than normal troops should be implemented.

Being able to build larger structures as a trade off for time would be helpful, especially when deploying mines.

So for example if I have a 6 man engineer team with up to 5 actual engineers, and I equip them historically with a teller mine each, whichever engineer I chose should have the option of deploying just the one mine, or for a suitably longer penalty the team’s worth of 5 mines in a historically accurate pattern of separation. This would allow me to cover an actual area with that squad, rather than manually doing this as I currently do, which takes a fair bit of time, particularly when the stupid AI runs my soldiers off in random directions and performs a bunch of actions inconsistent with what my main is doing. Same for AP mines.

This then goes into setting limits on which soldiers should technically have access to which weapons, particularly if the game calls out for specialist squads. The biggest culprit here are the detpacks, which are just cancer incarnate, bypassing the need for any team work or tactical play. They should be issued to engineers only along with AP and AT mines. You could argue that the “recon” team could also be equipped with AP mines IOT protect themselves from being overrun whilst doing recon, but given that most ppl just snipe at range this is a bit of a moot point.

Building bigger structures will certainly go a bit of a way to alleviate their degradation rate by munitions as currently implemented.

2 Likes

This would make a lot of engeneers happy :slight_smile: