Yeha maxed it too during Phase II, and there is a lot of thing i want, im almost at C.202EC and looking forward to it tbh, those 20mm will shread any allied plane, hehe. I know FW has them too, but that one is fyling brick tbh, just like in WT. And tbh i dont get that much of Exp thanks to loosing like 9 out of 10 battles.
After i will finish Axis in Tunisia i think i will max Normandy again, for both sides. But im not looking forward to exp another Assaulter squad tbh (Even when it is division i like at German side). But at least they have great starting perk. And AT gunners will finally have something to use.
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i wouldnt recommend getting your hopes up to much about those 20mm’s. according to the stats they are the same one the bf 109 g series has. and although they were historically (and in WT) extremely effective, atleast for the bf 109 they dont have the infamous HE rounds yet in enlisted so i dont think they will be on the C. 202EC either (its the same for the FW)
and also here is the xp requirement for level 4 SMG III squad in moscow. extremely painfull to level up
Thats what i thinked it will be, not looking forward to it. Tbh if it wasnt 91. Luftlande Division i woudnt even bother.
They work pretty well, at least against Hurricane and SBD from my experience, much better than just 2 12,7mm that RE has.
But i cant say how they work in Normandy on BF, didnt used it lately.
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oh yes it is better than the 12,7mm and the 7,92 mm. they are about as you expect being slightly better than those. but they are just a shadow of the mighty WT “air targets” ammunition
the hurricane and SBD are paper planes compared to the durability of the aircraft in normandy, so there is definetly a disconnect there yes. so you are probably correct about them being very effective in tunisia
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Oh yes, it is nothing like mighty “Air targets” belt, that just decimate planes, but lets be honest here, if it was here, there would be thread to “NERF GERMAN 20mm GUNS, I CANT FLY” in matter of seconds.
SBD can withstand something from 7,92 and 12,7, but 20mm kills it right away most of time, Huri is just a food for them, it takes one lucky 20mm to tail and tail says “sayonara” to rest of plane.
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Fighters still pointless. THEY NEED SMALL BOMBS. I know Italy made 50kg bombs. Not sure if the Re.2000 could carry them, but the Re.2000 is undergunned compared to the hurricane and should be replaced with Re 2001 or 2002. And they DEFINITELY could carry 50 kg bombs. For the second fighter you could do the cannon armed version of the Re.2001 CN variant could do this AND carry 50kg bombs. I understand planes need balancing, but it is the bombers that do the vast majority of the killing. The best counter to bombers are fighters. But too few people are going to go in a fighter that can’t kill infantry which just leads to more OP bombers.
The Semovente is crap compared to the Grant. In infantry centric battles the Grant is insane. (not to mention you can’t kill unless on flank with the M14/41) The Semovente needs a fast reload, HE rounds, and a roof MG, IMMEDIATELY. Just a huge imbalance in the campaign right now.
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Or make it easier to target inf with MGs/ cannons.
Sure, but right now. As is. This is a very poor setup
Just because you use CAPS LOCK doesnt mean you are correct, at all
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Oh look it is the troll. Trolling.
someone disagreed with me therefore they are a troll. fragile. sad.
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Could we get smoke grenades for Italian Tanks and Semovente? They all had this grenade launcher on the rear of the tank with 5 shots. It would be nice to provide smoke for concealment for your infantry.
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Been quiet in here. But I am here to change that @Keofox !!!
Okay, I’ve pretty much unlocked and played everything on the Axis side so I will approach everything from there.
I’ve left a lot of feedback here so let’s do a quick review of what I believe are the salient points:
Not a single German thing in this campaign THUS FAR is necessary. Everything has an Italian equivalent. Excepting maybe the Gewehr 41. However, there are still a ton of Italian rifles available in General. All the SMG’s, MG’s, Flamethrowers, Mortars, Motorcycles, everything has an Italian equivalent that could be used. I, and many others, would love to see all the German stuff replaced.
Eventually German squads will be necessary for Anti-tank and MG’s and Tanks. Given this a better system of integrating German troops in Italian squads and Italian Troops in German Squads is necessary. My personal idea is that each troop have a German and Italian name and adopts that name based on the squad they are in.
Fighters without some light ground attack ordnance are stupid. It is bombers that are the most imbalanced against infantry, not fighters. zero ground attack ordnance on fighters means less fighters up which means more bombers having free reign. Which makes the airplane situation effectively worse for those playing infantry.
The Semovente is crap compared to the Grant. There are fixes available. Roof MG, faster reload time for the main gun, and HE rounds that are more devastating against infantry are all legitimate and fair fixes. And the M13/40 and M14/41 need their Hull MG’s working. Their MG’s are so much worse than what the Brits get. Also, to be fair, the British Daimler should be first and the A13 should be the upgrade. Either that or switch the order Italy gets their vehicles.
The Italian Tanks (Except the AB.41) could get smoke grenade launchers. These would be excellent for the tanks in game and would primarily help SUPPORT THE INFANTRY. Which would be great.
The uniforms are boring for the Italian troops. They need more polish, more variance, more gear, more headgear, etc. They also need accurate pith helmets.
On to the new stuff: Motorcycle squad without engineer is basically useless. Motorcycle squad with only two crew and no engineer make the premium Motorcycle squad pay to win. These are both things that need to be addressed.
I’m not going to even bother with upgrading my German units anymore. I don’t like them and want all Italy anyway. Especially as I don’t want German troops in my Italian Squads.
The Gold Ticket M13/40 Serie (III) seems silly to me. Sure the paint job and it comes fully upgraded but the M14/41 has better power to weight (Fully upgraded) of 11 HP per ton vs. 9.3 HP per ton. Not sure how you model the armor, but the M14/41 also had better frontal hull armor (even though it was just the driver’s hatch). So, a few silver orders and you have a meaningfully better tank in the M14/41 than in the Gold Ticket M13/40. I, for one, am not going to buy it.
The Hurricane is clearly better than the Re.2000. An Re.2001 or Re.2002 would be more appropriate.
Gameplay Stuff:
Artillery Smoke is a really nice addition and I enjoy it.
Digging in seems overrated given the terrain and objectives, but I am glad to see it in game.
The Demolition battle mode is intense. Needs balancing maybe, but I like it.
The maps are gorgeous. Some of them seem unbalanced but all of that is fixable with objective locations, spawn locations, and spawn points. The also provide unique gameplay to other campaigns.
More bayonets please. I love them.
I love playing a different nation in a World War 2 shooter. Italy is almost never an option. I can’t wait to see what other nations you guys add in. Hungary/Romania against Russia sounds amazing. China vs. Japan please please please.
Also, I put my money where my mouth is. I’ve bought all the Italian Premium squads just to have them. I’m tryna do my part to keep this going.
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Still too quiet in here.
Been still pounding away at the campaign.
Some new observations: The Grant is much, much, much better than the Semovente. It’s not even close. Better Armor, Better Firepower, Better Survivability, Better against Tanks, Better Against Infantry. Will win 85% of the time in a head on engagement with the Semovente. Will win 100% of the time against The M13/M14/AB441.
The OVP M1918 isn’t very good. But I accept that I am not the best shooter. It has an amazing rate of fire. But the sights suck, and the magazine empties in less than a second.
Bringing in PS 4 has helped with the MM.
Still a ton of Historical inaccuracies with the Italians from uniforms to units…
Also, please, please, please get rid of as much German units as you can. The split personality of this campaign is annoying. Nothing in the game so far cannot be replaced with Italian equipment. Not a thing.
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9 times out of 10 my Re 2000 shoots them down. And the other 1 out of 10 is because the hurricane had help
Good for you. But the Firepower difference is staggering. And they are roughly equal in all other ways.
Breda .50s are a lot better against other planes than .303s are, yeah.
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I’ve dumped a whole belt in multiple SB2C’s and didn’t shoot them down… Meanwhile I last less than 20 seconds in my Ju 87
Since nobody else is writing here @Keofox I am going to go ham. BTW does this count as one of the “important” threads? I hope so.
There are many suggestions in here asking for more Italy and less Germany for the Tunisia campaign. I am in concordance with the vast majority of these recommendations and would love to see an Italian pure campaign.
First off, now is an excellent time to begin the transition. Everything that costs actual money to get is Italian excepting the Motorcycle squad. And if the weapons of the Motorcycle Squad are bound to it, that could even remain German (Although there are clearly Italian Options here.) A few German Premium squads with bound weapons would be cool In my opinion. So this could be done by one for one swapping all existing weapons (again excepting the Motorcycle squad. And units are simply a function of changing names of soldiers and units. The upgrades could all be retained, thus requiring no reimbursement.
That out of the way, let’s get to everyone’s favorite part, weapons.
I will work small to large, so let’s start with PISTOLS!!
Currently the game has five Pistols on Tunisia Axis. The Beretta M1934, Beretta M1923 The Walther PP, the Walther PPK, the P08 Luger. Here we would need to replace, three German Pistols…although the PPK appears to only come with the Motorcycle squad and if that is kept it wouldn’t need replacement, and might not need a specific replacement if the Squad is changed to Italian (something I don’t think is a good idea). The PP and PPK could easily be replaced with The Beretta Modello 1935 a pistol very similar to the M1934 but shooting a lighter cartridge. The Luger could be replaced by the Gilsenti Model 1910 in it’s 9mm variant. (it even looks like a Luger). Furthermore the Gilsenti had two different cartridge options (based on chambering) and could come in two variants. One could replace the PPK and one the Luger. And for the future as we march to level 40 another powerful pistol, the M1942 Sosso could be added. It was an experimental 9X19mm parabellum pistol. Finally there was a service revolver. The Bodeo Model 1889. This could be worked in in any number of ways. The two that immediately come to mind is replaceing the Beretta M1934 and leaving that for a later upgrade. Or, adding it as a stand alone upgrade before the Beretta M1923 as the Revolver shot 10.35mm bullets, which could be given a higher hitting power.
Ultimately, there are plenty of Italian Options, and plenty of variance in capability in those options. The M1942 Sosso is a rare prototype, but so what, those exist everywhere in this game and it DID exist. The rest were built in sufficient numbers and all would have been available.
Moving on to SMG’s.
Here we already see many of the Italian SMG’s available. However, we really only need to replace two German SMG’s The MP 28 and MP 40, and add a couple more options. First off, I recommend the Beretta M1918 Bigrillo. This is 25 round Box magazine SMG of WW1 design that was a prototype. For the MP 41 we have the Beretta M1938/43 which will be functionally similar to the M1 and M42 variants in game. For later upgrades we have the M1938A. The first, but most complex, version of the weapon.
Thus we have solid Italian Replacements for existing german weapons, and we have one model that would be interesting improvements to what we already have.
RIFLES!
Here we have four things we must replace. The Kar98K, the Kar98K sniper, The Rifle Grenade Kar98K and the Gewehr 41. The Kar 98K could easily be replaced by a variant of the M1891 or even the Steyr-Mannlicher M1895. For the Sniper variant the M1891 came in a sniper variant. For the Rifle Grenade Italy had the Tromboncino M28 a 38.5mm grenade launcher on the side of an M1891carbine. For the Gewehr Italy had the the Prototype M1931 Beretta. Yes it wasn’t produced in mass numbers but it existed, firing the 6.5X52mm. You could also do an M1918 or M1918/30 with bayonets. Pistol cartridge but 25 round capacity and a with a bayonet would be interesting. For a later SemiAuto (as we march towards 40) there is the M1937 variant which was chambered in 7.35mm cartridge. The 1931 had the 6 round magazine, but the m1937 had 9 or 10. There are also several other variants of Bolt Action Rifles of various capability that could be done for other types of squads as the game continues towards 40.
This post is already getting long. So I will do another with other weapons. Hopefully this has helped point out that Italy has plenty of options for this campaign, and certainly doesn’t have to rely on Germany for the first 30 levels.
There is a discussion on these proposals here: How to have an Italian Only Campaign in Tunisia Phase I
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Light Machine Guns:
Here we run into our first real problem. Other than the Breda 30 there were no Italian LMG’s that did not require a tripod to use. However some sources indicate that the Italians used captured FM 24/29 French LMGs. This would be an excellent replacement for the ZB-26. They are very similar in capability. However, for later MG squads the Axis in Tunisia are going to have to be represented by the Germans. Here MG 34 and MG 42 would be options. Another reason to keep the Premium Motorcycle Squad German. Germans are going to have to come in anyway.
Ultimately, Germans will be necessary.
Anti-Tank Guns: Currently these are both German guns. This is entirely unnecessary. The PzB-38 could easily be replaced by the Solothurn S-18/100 Anti-Tank Rifle. Very similar in size and capability. Also, more similar to the Boys. For the GrB-39 I recommend the Experimental Lancibombe Controcarro 60mm. Very few were built, but it seems to have existed and would be a perfect replacement. For future Infantry Anti-Tank, well I would point out there really isn’t a lot for Germany OR Italy after the GrB-39. As an option I propose a squad wheeling around a Cannone controcarro sa 37/45. On a related note, the Engineers should build an Italian Anti-Tank Gun. But the only appropriate option is the 47/32 M35 which will be terrible against the Grant.
Ultimately, don’t really need Germany here either.
Anti-Aircraft:
Very Briefly, the Italians could build the Cannone da 37/54 instead of the Wirblewind mount. Proper ammo would make this fine.
Mortars:
The Granatwerfer 36 could very easily be replaced by the Brixia Model 35. A 15.5 kilo system of 45mm.
Flamethrowers: The Italians deployed multiple types of Flamethrowers of varying capability. No reason in the world you need Germans for Flamethrower troops in the Tunisia campaign.
Tanks.
First, let me say that the Italians already have all of the vehicles they deployed to Tunisia. (By the way the Golden Order Tank is worse than the M14/42 upgraded, really no reason to get it) . Let me also say that the Semovente needs to be buffed. Roof MG, HEAT rounds, HE rounds, and a faster reload are all legitimate options. The problem becomes, what comes next? I would say that a case could be made to give the Italians the P40 as the prototypes would have been done before the Tunisia campaign ended. The P40 stacks up very well against the Sherman and could do well in the game. However, for a more “pure” situation this would have to be done with the Germans. (A Panzer IV). IF they decide to add heavy tanks, the only option is a German Tiger I. However, a small number of necessary German Squads is still basically an Italian campaign.
Ultimately Germans are likely necessary.
Planes.
I don’t believe the current Italian planes are appropriate, The Re.2002 would be better for the first plane, Re.2001CN for the second plane (No FW 190 necessary). The third Fighter could remain the MC.202EC but I would like something with bombs. Like an early G.55. The Ju87 could be replaced with any number of vehicles, but a Breda 88M would probably be best. For later aircraft, Italy would continue to have many options.
Ultimately Germany is unnecessary.
Motorcycles. Italy had several clever motorcycle gun carriers. No reason you would have to resort to German. The Moto Guzzi 500 Trialce and the Benelli 500 M36 Mototriciclo as two examples.
That about wraps it up. Sure, Some Germans might be necessary, but there is a clear path to almost all of the 40 levels being Italian. This should be the goal.
There is a discussion on these proposals here: How to have an Italian Only Campaign in Tunisia Phase II
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