I didn’t have time to get real specific with it. I’ll post some clips tomorrow night. I’ll explain what i did for a quick test and comparison. I did try to leave out as much human error and variables as possible though.
I simply did a “test vehicle” option on both the f80 and the 262 battlepass plane. As soon as the plane spawned in to the test range I went to full throttle immediately, and kept the plane steady at it’s spawned altitude. Once the plane reached 2500m from the resupply point, i went max elevators to pitch the nose down as quickly as possible. As soon i engaged the elevators, time was started. As soon as the cockpit aiming reticle landed at the last tank in the far right lane time was stopped. I repeated the tests a few times to make sure i was getting similar results. The f80 was taking around 3 seconds. The 262 was taking around 1.5 seconds.
I don’t think your perks are loaded in with your soldiers when you use the “test” option, but even if they are i use the same perks on all my pilots.
Br2 is also immensely popular. The vast majority of my games from this year have been br2. It’s not always an uptier. I also enjoy a bit of a challenge sometimes. I realize my view may be skewed because most of builds are non tech tree items, so i tend to have an edge over other players. However, as my skills and game knowledge has increased, the less i care about “hard to kill” tanks in an uptiered match simply because I’ve realized how many different ways the game has provided us to kill tanks. We have more powerful tank destroyers, We have fighter AND attacker planes, we have buildable AT guns, we have AT launchers, we have guerrillas AND the saboteurs, every soldier can equip explosion packs AND/OR TNT/AT mines, we have engineers that can build hedgehogs, and every soldier can dig a ditch. If one tank isn’t able to do it, there is a plethora of other options that can do it.
No, that’s not why. It’s because longer barreled 75s with apcbc is not the norm for br2 and a lot of players don’t want that strong of a tank there. I’m also pretty sure there are br1 tanks that can penn the stug iii. But even if there aren’t, there also aren’t any AT launchers. Br1 to 2 is a far greater gap than br2 to 3 generally speaking. Point being it’s a lot easier for br2 to fight stronger br3 stuff than br1 to fight stronger br2 stuff.
I disagree. I’m pretty sure the ho-i can penn the hull frontally, but even if it can’t, i don’t see it as true problem. But this may just be because my german line ups are stacked. Japan ain’t no slouch either. It logically makes more sense to me that the 76s are side grades to an already existing br3 tank, AND it helps U.S. fight br4 tigers and Panthers. Which is something both japan and germany don’t have to put up with to the same degree but they both were given stronger br2 tanks to deal with uptiers
No that does not sound logical at all. This is how sounds spoiled you are is that you call an already incredible tank on BR 3(Don’t try to downplay this fact, it’s literally backed up by stats and tanks like Panzer 4 H are not even close honestly)which is Sherman with 75mm gun, put 76mm gun that could fight BR 4 tanks as well then call it a sidegrade. Yes even with a weaker HE.
Use TD to have a better odds against tanks a BR higher like the rest of other factions then. What’s up with the double standard? You literally said that for BR 2 Japan against BR 3 US.
I guess now we magically forgets about the existence of Jumbo Sherman and IS-1.
So what you are talking about is the elevator responsiveness on a medium speed. Me 262 is better at this but on a sustained pitch/yaw movement Me 262 loses to F-80. Better elevator/rudder responsiveness alone doesn’t dictates how an aircraft turn well. For example, Fw 190 has much snappier Elevator/Rudder responsiveness than Spitfires but nobdy says that Fw 190 has a better turn ratio than spitfire. It’s not even close.
And even then, when it comes to F-80 and Me 262, on high speed Me 262 control stiffens up whereas F-80, not so much. It’s not even close when F-80 starting to deploy airbrakes while in high speed steep diving where Me 262 unable to do since no airbrakes whatsoever.
The f80 actually has an even worse time to pitch down with airbrakes on. It more than doubles the time. I’m not claiming the 262 has a better turn speed. I’m just pointing out that i think it about equals out in terms of overall maneuverability. The 262 can enter a dive twice as fast, meaning it can easily make up the 1 second turn time difference if you force the f80 into a downward pitch to attack. The f80 also cannot take a max turn without blacking out and looses responsiveness. The 262 does not experience this. Again allowing the 262 to make up for the 1 second difference in certain conditions. The f80 will break flaps off at around 560-600 kmh, forcing the f80 to slower turn speeds once again, and if flaps do break off, the 262 will undoubtedly have a massive advantage. My point is, the planes have different strengths over one another in maneuvering, and i believe it’s pretty balanced with no significant difference. 1 second turn time difference is barely anything and doesn’t mean much in this game. When you get to 3-4+ seconds difference, that’s enough to turn the tide.
They have snappy ailerons, allowing to barrel roll fast. Which doesn’t contribute to better maneuvering. This isn’t the same thing as what I’m talking about.
Again, i don’t think using uptiers/downtiers is a reasonable argument, and it has nothing to do with my opinion on it. I’m comparing the 76mm sherman with what’s in br3. And if you want to bring up the jumbo, it must be compared to what’s in br4 where it undoubtedly belongs. Every opposing br3 nation can take out the 76 sherman with no trouble. The 76 shermam however does not fare that well in br4 and is no where close to the same upgrade between panzer 4 and panther/tiger. I believe tanks should be compared with their own battle ratings and not lower/higher ones.
In low-medium speed yes. But i clearly said while they are on high speed, which you often in a situation when you are diving to bomb a ground target, that’s when the airbrake becomss very useful. And also that’s where this conversation has begun, that you said F-80 is hard to pull up in a dive bombing run.
They are clearly not equal. You are either trying to downplay the performnace of F-80 so hard or misusing the term called overall maneuverability here.
That’s the most disingenuous thing i’ve heard so far. You do realize that F-80 actually has a better acceleration(F-80 literally reaches a high speed faster than Me 262 when both flown straight surely you have noticed this if you had tested them?)and that faster rudder/elevator response advantage on 262 immediately lost when Me 262 trying to continue the yaw/pitch movement more than a second against F-80. Like i said, rudder/elevator responsiveness =X= better sustainable turn/pitch ratio.
So does Me 262. But this is less pronounced on Me 262 because you know why? Because, it has a shit turn ratio with control stiffens up in high speed plus, shittier acceleration.
Also you are talking about the blackout from high G as if it’s something so terrible and not recoverable, it is not. The loss of responsiveness when pilot blacked out can be mitigated A LOT by the correct perks selection. Even more advantageous for F-80 in this case because premium F-80 pilot has a waaay better stat points than the max rolled pilot 3. Can pick up so much more useful vitality category perks that are related to flying airplanes. This is why i asked you about the pilot perks, now i understand that you are actually oblivious on this matter.
Now that is completely BS. First of all, why would you use the flaps on that speed? second, when both airplanes are engaged in a turn fight neither of airplanes can maintain that much speed. Tell me you actually have no idea what you are talking about without telling me you have no idea what you are talking about moment.
Literally maximum copium at this point. I guess the playerbase regards F-80 as literally a better jet than Me 262 in almost all aspect are wrong and only you are correct then i guess. Forget about the literal objective performance of each jets, Me 262 must be and should be better.
Fw 190 does have snappier rudder as well. Snappier elevator control too when both planes are at high speed where Spitfire starting to locking up. FW 190 also rolls faster because of better ailerons but that’s beside the point here. It is exactly what i have been talking about. Having a better instantaneous pitch rate doesn’t translate into a better sustained pitch rate. You will notice that after a few seconds passed the Me 262 will struggle to maintain that pitch rate while F-80 does just as well. This ended up having Me 262 in a massive disadvantage when it comes to a dogfight with F-80 which almost all people who have flown both airplanes agree to.
Also, this is becoming a huge off-topic, if you really think that Me 262 is better then come and dual me in a custom game. This could be solved so fast without dragging the topic this much. But honestly, you won’t do this because deep down you know the F-80 is literally a better jet than Me 262 in performance because all other objective stats indicates so, but you are so hard in denial that you just repeats yourself without any credible sources or clips.
Yet, you are using them just fine when you are talking about the BR 4 german tanks such as Panther and Tiger 1 H. So what’s up with the double standard? Make up your mind would you? Either Sherman 76mm/Panther/Tiger 1 causes a problem when they gets downtiered or not at all. You don’t get to cherry pick the examples in your favor.
Yeah, which it can absolutely bully the Japanese BR 4 tanks. You think Chi-To or Chi-Ri 2 has a chance against Jumbo Sherman? think again. Chi-To and Chi-Ri 2 still has to aim for the MG port/Cupola on the Jumbo Sherman in order to penetrate the Jumbo but Jumbo can just lolpen wherever it pleases against BR 4 japanse tanks. Are you going to address that or just keep crying about how it’s useless against Panther and Tiger 1(Btw, these two also has to aim for the MG port or cupola on Jumbo in order to penetrate the Jumbo. Jumbo on BR 4 basically sacrificed it’s gun for being the most protective tank on BR 4. Tiger 1/Panther can be destroyed by 76mm gun from BR 3 such as M10 and M18 but Jumbo can’t even be penetrated unless thru the very small weakspots by something like for example, premium open-topped flakbus with 88mm on BR 3 which considered to have one of the best gun on it’s BR. So which one would be able to bully the lower BR tanks better i wonder? The answer is very obvious)? Again, your selective bias is staggering in here.
Not as easy as 76mm Sherman lolpen everything up to BR 4 with it’s 76mm gun while also having a very protective armor against the majority of BR 2 tanks.
That does not mean that it should be BR 3. If you want a tank on BR 3 with 76mm then you have to give up the armor which makes the 75mm shermans so good on BR 3. You don’t just get to choose both just because it’s not the best tank on BR 4.
@X_BloodBandit_X and @YUI_SaltyPlayer
Guys, guys. As much as I like a good debate, can you not do it here please? I made this thread for the 75-76 thing, not jet plane stuff. Here, I made a topic for you to continue this please.
Also @YUI_SaltyPlayer you have been leaning more into the personal attacks and insults territory instead of actually arguing. Don’t get me wrong it can be very hard to do this sometimes with people on this form who sometimes I swear are just trolls but this guy seems very genuine. I mean he even did an in game test with a stopwatch. That’s very uncommon and shows good faith.
Hmmm, thats actualy a very good argument.
Congratulations you have convinced me!
The 76 Jumbo should stay at BR5. Unlike the normal 76 shermans the Jumbo could not be penned by most tanks at BRs 3-4. It would be unfair for BR3 tanks because it would have no good counterplay. Let it be know that I am not not like most people on these forum, stupid, stubborn, and unwilling to change their mind despite being proven wrong. Given a good enough argument I will change my mind.
I still stand by my statements with the A1 and A2 varients as they can be penned and would work very well balence wise.
I was being aggressive for sure and i’m aware of this. But you can clearly see that this guy engages in in a bad faith argument and double standard, which i have no respect left for someone like this. Also, you said that this guy is genuine and not a troll, well… let’s just say that his previous posts are less than appealing.
Allegedly, he said he did the tests but so far, not a single proof he provided be it a video clips or a screenshot. I’ll start believe he’s actually in a good faith when i see one.
I couldn’t connect to servers yesterday. Had internet issues or else i would have.
There are no double standards, i said i don’t care that germany has stronger br4 tanks if you read my comments. I only touched on uptier/downtier stuff because someone else used it as an argument.
I did fail to think about br4 jumbo against japan, but let’s be honest, they always get the short end of the stick, and just because they have gaps in their tree doesn’t mean u.s. shouldn’t be compared fairly to germany. And to restate my claim, i believe the 76 shermans are balanced with what’s available in br3 for all. But i also don’t really care if they don’t get down tiered as well. I do fine without them. Also you glazed over the sturmpanzer that can one hit all tanks in the game frontally.
You seem to miss understand a lot my statements. I never said the 262 is better. Not once. The bombs alone make the f80 better. Strictly talking about maneuvering, my claim is the f80 is not significantly better as you like to claim. I said the flaps break off around 560-600 because they literally broke off on me using them at that speed to try to turn faster to catch a plane. Otherwise i wouldn’t of said it. Der.
See, this is what i’m talking about your double standard is that you thinks that Japan is whatever don’t care but BR 4 US sufferage is real and must be addressed. This is because you don’t actually believe in a fair balance but rather, fair balance only for USA.
Yeah sure. I’m pretty sure that all of your previous posts talking about how OP the BR 4 Tiger 1/Panther and should be BR 5 has nothing to with it.
Not when 76mm sherman also has a very good armor for BR 3, some of them being even better than the 75mm variants. That’s not how it works.
Open-topped tank with paper armor on BR 3 without a turret and a bad horizontal gun traverse range, and it kills with overpressure from HE it’s not the same as killing them directly with AP. Also if you are going to bring the event stuff then i could bring the prem sherman firefly on BR 4 which is more than a equal when it comes to tank vs tank combat even against your so called OP Tiger 1/Panther so your entire US BR 4 tanks sucks arguments loses it’s point.
And you seem to trying to twist your statements a lot.
And i’ve been saying that your claim is objectively false. Just a quick search for 5 mins can invalidates your claim, so what you are doing rn is just basically a denial after denial without any sounding proof whatsoever.
