I have been thinking a lot about scopes and funnily grenade launchers ended up getting into the mix.
We have the Sniper class who’s job is to use scoped guns to take long range precise shots. They have basically any firearm equipped with a scope ranging from bolt-action rifles to semi-auto rifles to automatic rifles to assault rifles. However in real life it’s a bit more complicated. Snipers and Designated Marksmen are two distinct types of units. Snipers are independent units that use high powered scopes to take long range precision shots. Designated Marksmen are part of the standard infantry squad and use a short scoped gun to give the squad slightly more reach. Basically Snipers are long range, Designated Marksmen are short range. For simplicity the Sniper class combines these two units as just the soldier with the scope.
If we were to divide some weapons in game, for Germany the Kar98k with the long scope would be for Snipers while the Gewehr 43 with the short scope would be for DM.
Here’s where grenade launchers enter into the mix.
In game we have rifles with attached grenade launchers as just another weapon in the arms of Riflemen. You can arm an entire squad with rifle grenade launchers. In real life grenade launcher attachments were carried by designated grenadiers in infantry squads, for example American and German squads typically 1-2 soldiers would be designated grenadier. Grenade launching was a specific job with specific training.
Here is the conundrum. So while designated marksmen were regular infantry just with a short scope integrated with the standard infantry squad they are basically rolled into Sniper for its class role; yet grenade launchers are just a weapon you can give any Riflemen?
If we’re separating Designated Marksmen into a separate class for their specific job, then why not grenade launchers also. Unless if we say that grenadiers are basically Riflemen anyway, then we can say designated marksmen are too and thus we should let every Riflemen use scoped Gewehr 43s and FG 42s.
- Move DMRs to Riflemen, they’re just a Riflemen’s weapon anyway
- Add a Grenadier class, Grenadier is a specific job
- No
Sharpshooters did existed for some units back in WW2, but they didn’t used only Semi-auto rifles. Here’s a picture of what weapon a German ‘Designated Marskman’ (Unnoficial term) used back in the day:
A Kar98k equipped with a ZF-41 Sight (1,5x), designed to give a rifleman the capability to provide cover to their team and take down enemies at medium distances
Nonetheless, they did used the Gewehr 43 rifle to give their shooters a better option for medium range combat in the medium-late stages of WW2
Remember that Liudmila Pavlichenko herself was a Soviet sniper that used a SVT-40 rifle during her career, but prefered the Mosin over a semiautomatic rifle.
Semiauto rifles, regardless of their category, deal less damage for the sake of balance, but they can still take down an enemy with a single shot if you aim well.
If I didn’t make myself clear, I don’t think a ‘Sharpshooter’ or ‘Marskman’ class would be necessary, it would be redundant since most squads can carry snipers already and it wouldn’t be a great improvement over that, a redundant class.
However, for the granadier class I think it would be a good idea to make them specialists. But, since GLs are not as broken as what I heard they were before, I don’t think people would agree with this idea.
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I know about the short scope Kar98k, which I want in game. I was just using what we have in game now to make a point
My ultimate point is that if everyone feels that designated marksmen and snipers are a specific unit with specific equipment, then so should grenadiers and grenade launchers. But if people feel that no grenade launchers should remain for Riflemen then it’s no different than just letting them use DMRs anyway
To me it’s about principal and specific tactical roles
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Where is the “no” option.
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I am asking everyone to face the reality and hypocrisy of the conundrum.
Designated Marksmen and Grenadiers were integrated into the standard infantry squad.
If we accept grenade launchers as just another weapon for Riflemen than we can say short scopes might as well be too, since true Snipers used long range scopes. Thus Riflemen can use anything from grenade launchers to dmrs
If we say that scoped weapons are for a designated Sniping class, then the same should be said for grenade launchers. It’s a specific tactical job
Mate, there was no such thing as a ‘Designated Marskman’ role back in ww2 except for the limited usage of low magnifiaction optical sights by the Wehrmacht during the invasion of the USSR and the distribution of ZF-4 scopes during the late stages of WW2, neither there was an official designation for ‘DMRs’, scoped semiautomatic rifles were considered sniper rifles just as scoped bolt action rifles, the only exception is the Gewehr 43 because it included by default with a rail to mount a ZF-4 scope, but just as the SVT-40 was reserved for elite troops, the G43 saw limited combat with regular troops, elite troops had the priority to recieve this kind of weapon. Not every squad had a ‘squad sharpshooter’, in fact most nations preferred to specialize their snipers in independent units. Even if we release scoped semiauto rifles for riflemen, then what would snipers even exist for at higher BRs? It’s not because DF is trying to erase the role of squad shooters (That only Germany had) from history, it is for balancing. Let’s say Darkflow adds a short scoped rifle, the K98k ZF-41 for Germany, then what for the other nations? They didn’t develop or distributed that kind of accesory for regular troops. Who wants to see a 9 men squad armed with scoped rifles that are as lethal as any rifle?—rifles just as lethal as any other at the ranges covered by the game’s maps
2 Likes
Define short scope most military scopes vary from 2! To 4 times magnification
1.5 2 2.5 4 times
Short scope is irrelevant it’s magnification that matters
Sure 1,5 to 2 max, short scope
Anything above 2 to 4 x magnification normal
I don’t know if any of the games even use under 2x magnification
So then we are in agreement that scoped weapons belong to a Sniping class, and thus why grenade launchers should go to their own specialist class
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Lost 1 game yesterday because this dude would not stop sniping. We really needed his help.
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A screenshot taken from another members game… this teammate did absolutely nothing and actively griefed his team with their actions… i genuinely think these players should be excluded form normal public games and left to play selfishly for their own enjoyment against bots instead of ruining it for other players.
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He killed around 90 men and only killed around 30 men. . Point…333 ratio
There website idiots pay to have bots play their account like at work. Maybe would explain soo much.
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Really hate to be a pain but
Your poll doesn’t have a “No” option, making it a bias poll
The only polls that are valid/counted should within both the post itself or within the first 5 comments
You may edit your post, a way to circumvent the no editing of polls is to simply remove the existing poll and just adding a new one
You have 3 days to edit your post, else this post will be closed
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I edited it and put a new poll, but I strongly feel my argument is sound why it makes sense to add a Grenadier class.
