WW2 was not divided into tiers, neither should Enlisted

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Guys with rifles had to face guys with Machine Guns and Assault rifles, and guys in weaker tanks faced guys in superior tanks, just ask the japs…same goes with aircraft…if you want campaigns and battles where certain tiers can shine against equal tiers (even if unrealistic), then consider doing that as a separate thing, not as the major overhaul to the entire core of the game

If the reason for this update is to prepare for future updates that will expand beyond WW2, then that can have its own campaign with its own package of weapons etc…

But if the reason for this update is merely to hand hold a section of the playerbase, then it is going about it the wrong way

Just add a rifles only mode and infantry only mode

The warthunder system would only work if it divided certain eras of war that are split by many years of technological advancements and changes, it’s not meant to be used to divide a single war era, and we see the failure in that system when they have leakage across the wrong eras because the gaming system is faulty and ruins immersion

if this game encompassed ww1 + ww2 + korea + vietnam + modern warfare and perhaps futuristic warfare, then of course you have to split those things

but splitting one world war based on the weapons of war, was the wrong way to do it when campaigns, theatres and specific battlefields could already achieve this

the way to do it was to keep campaigns and theatres of war, and then have the appropriate tools used in that theatre

the other thing that could have been done is to have battlefield subsections of the campaigns, that the players choose to engage in which would have the appropriate gear of those battlefields…note the keywords here are player choice

removing player choice and limiting battles based on loadouts is completely ridiculous especially when tied into the progression of the game that was always about unlocking new stuff, now that has been completely devalued, both from an immersion perspective and from a reward perspective

So If I could suggest something

Instead of making all of this new system forced

give the players the option to bypass it with a simple check box that the player can choose what to do

and provide scaling extra rewards to players who choose to fight in battles against higher br tiers

this way players can still have an incentive to jump into the fire, and will bring more diversity to the higher br battles

At least this way it is a player choice and there is good reason to take up the extra challenge

This is the only way I can see this mess being salvaged if it goes ahead, because if the future of enlisted at the end game is to only face stacked squads of high br, this game is as good as dead, most battles in ww2 were not fair, so trying to force the game to be more fair with this tier system is ridiculous…

there are already enough dumb games out there that have done this and ruined their game, and most games are already a match between high powered weapons

this game actually provided the unique experience of mixing the full spectrum of ww2 into one package, that was one of the cool things about it. Destroying this is destroying the game for me

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they also had to deal with leavers but apparently some people still whine and bitch about it

Its not exactly only to protect noobs from high tier stuff its also to protect high tier players from people that are about as useful as bag of analplugs.

“ppl leaving is not fair”

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It’s not about “hand holding” a chunk of the playerbase necessarily, its about:

  • Making more balanced fights that are more interesting to play, as its bad as a much lower level going against high level, but its also boring when you are a high level going against noobs that don’t have the equipment or knowledge to even put up a fight.

  • Keeps more of the equipment that is available within the game relevant. Face it, once you unlocked higher tier equipment, you never went back and used the old equipment, there was no reason to. Small pouches is a prime example. The small pouches were the first options early on, but as soon as you unlocked large pouches, did you ever go back to using small pouches?

If that is what you want, I suggest Custom games.

Enlisted is about having a combined effort of infantry, armor, aircraft, etc.

Unfortunately, as it currently is, new players don’t even get a chance to experience how the game is supposed to be because its so oversaturated with end-tier spam weapons. The weapons they have access to cannot even remotely compare, which is why they are trying to implement this system.

I for one am fine with the tier system in theory. However, I really think they need to reconsider what comes in at what tier, as explosive packs are extremely low on the board which just incentivizes them to be spammed even more. Meanwhile, AT mines that are EXTREMELY rarely seen as of current are half way up the list, 2 levels beyond explosive packs.

I think if they took the time to better implement things as certain levels they could potentially remove a lot of the spam and work on bringing back solid strategy to the game, rather than just reactionary gameplay (run-and-gun), which the strategic element is what pulled a lot of us into the game in the first place. Run-and-gun tactics are greatly overdone on other major titles, they don’t need to turn this into that.

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That is still available after the update, so you have no point

That is another false argument, since bad players can also have high br, noobs are always going to be in games, or players that aren’t very good at the game, doesn’t matter what br system is invented

people will still quit matches in the new system when they realize their team sucks, because that is the real reason, they just need an excuse to leave

the new br system won’t fix that

People do leave, and will continue to leave in the new br system, no change there

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Speak for yourself, I earned my place to beat up the noobs, I was once in their shoes, it’s the way it is, and some noobs aren’t noobs, just new players that are very good at first person shooters

war is not about splitting up the guys with different tiers of weapons and having them only fight each other, that is stupid, and not interesting…

That is the point of having a progression system, so you can progress to something better and players get the feeling they accomplished something

I am not against having a different mode for equal tier battles, but changing the entire identity of the game for that is too extreme

which is why the infantry only and rifle only suggestion is made, it’s not because I want that, it’s because it’s preferable to what is happening with this change

I would probably still keep playing the game as it is, and that’s ok with me, but not with this new system coming in, I will likely leave

The game will just become over saturated with higher tiers in the higher tier br, and that will push a lot of players away permanently or to lower tiers to smash the noobs there, so this entire fallacy is just that, a fallacy

I started as a noob and worked my way up, and I earned my place, and now to have this crap where there is a tiered system is just an insult

which is why players need to have the choice, instead of it being a forced mechanic

I don’t even entertain the discussion of the tiers, it’s just that stupid, there is no discussion, war is just war, you fight with all that is available, there was no tiers of soldiers choosing to equip lower br gear so they could go fight an enemy that has also agreed to only use that lower br gear

this entire thing is a joke

game going down the wrong path

You don’t seem to understand that this level system is going to create more spam of those things in those tiers

so the battlefield is just going to be spammed by the same things at each br, except now there will be less diversity of players in matches, so it will only be worse than before :rofl:

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oh boy did you miss the point by a mile

Obviously, still 99% less useless people than currently.

Well considering 99% of the useless people currently are something like tier1-2 so it will be around
winter 2057 untill they get to high BR.
So yeah, not perfect system but surely fixes 99% of this exact issue.

Or shit map, mode.
Either way decreases again 99% of leaving due to shit team.

Quite sure they wont leave much as now.

Well not really, you still havent provided stats.
Eitherway, you can have your power fantasy in custom games and kill bots if you only want to roflstomp something.
Others seems to be more than fine with more balanced & intresting games.

Dont think thats going anywhere you still get to unlock stuff.

Oh man you will be missed, like alot.

you do have, custom games.

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not when half still leave a match because their team sucks and the rest are replaced by bots

so now if that happens on your team, you leave too, because you don’t want bots on your team

so what’s the difference? You prefer bots or bad players? what difference does it make?

None because I know you just leave anyway lol

and that will continue to happen, because you will join a match and expect everyone to be high tier and really good team mates because they are high br, but then when you realize that the other team is better and that your team sucks, and others on your team begin to quit and now you have bots on your team, you too will leave

so no difference, you are also admitting you like to roflstomp and then look down your big lying nose at me lol

Wrong, because shit team is not only due to noobs, the other team has equal chance of getting noobs as your team

you are living in this fake view of things, it’s so funny to me

This new br system isn’t going to provide that, you are still going to have many bots in matches, and believe it or not, the only interesting games are largely because there are less players roflstomping and the bots help to reduce that, not br

because as I have stated a million times and thick people don’t understand, the issue in this game is that they cannot balance player numbers on each team, so the same issue will persist into the new br system

but hey, keep on going with your delusions and false narratives, don’t let me slow you down :rofl:

It is going somewhere, it is going into sections of limited matches, where it makes no difference to unlock something because it has no value, because the value was removed because the value was in it being an advantage, now it’s meaningless and no longer gives advantage in battle, as everyone in that br has the same thing and spams the same things more than ever before

no you don’t have, because the new system will force everyone into br system

which is why the suggestion is to give low br players a choice, so they can choose to play higher br for increased earning potential

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nobody is happy with current tech tree. if they put this 5 months ago as WIP and for community suggestions i would understand, but putting this so close to update is irresponsible.

difference is big. before you had ~30% of bots on average in crossplay on games and one of the reasons people left is cause teams sucked. and they usually sucked cause you had more than half of your team filled with bots.

it will partially fix it. 2 biggest reasons for leaving are shitty team (usually cause of bots making more than half the team) and shitty map/mode. i am not saying that deserters will disappear, but it will at least mitigate large part of the problem.

just cause you were seal clubbed doesnt give you right to seal club. i dont have problem if you seal club with skill, but i have problem when you seal club cause you have vastly overwhelming weaponry.

works in other games, so idk why you think it wont work here.

you obviously dont understand NOT ENOUGH FUCKING PLAYERS in this game to keep status quo. some campaigns were almost pure PvE.

there are hundred reasons on why to leave this game and BR MM is least one of them. you are just leaving cause you cant seal club newbies and bots anymore.

and you are just putting fallacy here. people were already smashing noobs, just with full autos and invulnerable end game vehicles (e.g. stuart vs tiger). by splitting them into tiers you will have part of the veterans still smashing newbies on lower tiers while rest will be on higher tiers.

cry more just cause you lost your seal clubbing privilege. prognosis:

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and this is game.

in multiple topics i have proved that there will be diversity with mighty napkin math. in most cases you will get anywhere between ±1 MM up to ±4 MM in peak hours (although i have calculated ±2 MM that is under ideal conditions with perfect distribution, in real life some tiers/sides will be more populated than others so ±1 ), with ±5 or ±6 MM in off peak hours. there is enough diversity (even too much, so i think they need to put hard limit on max ±MM )

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Why would theyr team suck? I mean this BR system effectively makes sure people like you stick to tier1-2 games untill winter 2054.

Yeah, thats why Iam expecting new matchmake with balanced games and you are whining here because you cant farm noobs with what ever “high tier” weapons you have.

99% of time, yeah it is.

You sure you want to argue about who has fantasy views ?

And this is the reason why you do not leave kids unattended with crayons.

Man I remember the times when cars came with manuals that gave instructions how to adjust valves with nothing but bubble gum and fingernail at the side of road.

After having this “chat” with you I kind of understand why those modern cars comes with manuals that tells you to not drink battery acid and not much else.

Eitherway, as you said you most likely will leave. Definitely will miss you but dont be afraid to take a head start and leave sooner rather than later.
Bye.

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I don’t like BR that much as well, but at some point, you need to accept reality.

DF failed with their campaign system. (IMO) This was achieved by pure laziness in terms of content and the balance issues with led to constant bot farming on almost all campaigns. The HA thing is old and while I would prefer it as well, it is dead horse at this point. The devs either intentionally lied to us or they were simply too lazy to do research and now pretend it was never their concept (and I dont know what’s worse here). Yes, the players who are purists here in that term exist, but again the stupid horse is dead and turned into German frozen lasagna. And focusing on one single market group is stupid and we need to look at how cbs will play out. As @robihr stated, the player base is stagnating to say the best and while we can argue about how many levels and how much you want to rate the Mkb, it is common sense that the old order is not working anymore and the pools can’t be separated anymore.

Sure, we can ask to fix the campaigns but I was long enough here to tell how successful that was, and in general, the devs are awful at fixing major stuff. I rather trust them with something new and the snail seems to think that as well (cough bipods cough).

And I also dont know how extra xp is changing anything at this point. I play high BR when I want to play high BR or because DF has wrong values and I won’t jump into Tiger matches with a BT-7.

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because a br is not what decides if a player or more importantly a team sucks

it’s not complicated

if you took the best 100 players of this game, and said you guys are only allowed to play against each other, nobody else

most matches would still be one sided, because the system doesn’t know to queue them up evenly

and because some would quit matches looking for new matches more favorable, then lets say that in a 10 vs 10 you should only have 5 matches of 20 people playing at one time, theoretically, but in reality that won’t happen, because they are on at different times and they quit matches when their fav situation doesn’t show up and some have their premade squads and others don’t…etc…

you would probably have 20 matches with only about 5 people playing and looking for new matches when they end up in a match of 4 vs 8

so you see, the issue is the system and that system will remain with the br, you still won’t be choosing maps or modes

so again, the br isn’t going to fix any of that

it’s just creating a false split in the playerbase and ruining the immersion the game had of being ww2 for no good reason

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if this game sold itself from the beginning that I had to progress to unlock things and then limit battles according to weapons, I wouldn’t have bothered to play it to begin with

part of the charm and attraction was to progress and then reaching a pinnacle to have that sense of achievement and advantage and then when I felt like starting over, had a new exciting campaign to try, and they went and destroyed that too

without that, no point playing the game anymore

might still play it a little bit to give it a chance, but if the gear is all split up all over the place, there is no point, I just don’t feel immersed in the theme of the game anymore, they killed it with this br implementation

this game will become just like the other trash games

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Im relatively sure any high BR player is better than 99% of your tier1 players.

and yet you fail to understand

Sure, one team always wins theres no tie option.
If thats what you are after with your loGiKSZs here

Nah we’ll have full 10v10 games.

Yeah, shame to see you leave. Bye

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you won’t

because you will quit as soon as your team sucks

which will still happen

and then others will be doing the same

and then you will be here wondering why you still playing with bots

and the others like me that left will be laughing at you because you can’t figure it out despite us spelling it out for you, but it’s ok, we will be having fun playing different games that don’t ruin the one core thing they have going for themselves

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I just wonder what you will cry about then

Because then you can’t say it’s because of noobs, once you get your br wish, and you still quit matches due to not liking your team, you will then be experiencing what I am telling you will happen and will probably invent some other nonsense reason, like have to make more br tiers :rofl:

have to fine tune the br tiers :rofl:

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and you are wrong. with BR MM you will get flexible MM that will put human players together and not bots. this is biggest advantage and flaw of their announced BR MM. not enough players in your tier? expand the search to next.
you can say that half the reason why you have one sided matches are cause over half of your team are bots. other half is that PC players cant turn off crossplay and must play with/against console players, so side with more PC players usually wins.

it wouldnt be one sided. one side might be winning, but it wouldnt be one sided.

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it would be one sided because unless you have a way to get all the players to show up to fill every slot everytime and a way to separate them based on true skill levels for an even match, you are still going to have a one sided affair, and top players still quit matches like anyone else

but now you are trying to implement some kind of esports rubbish into this casual game that is largely comprised of shooting mostly bots :rofl:

and then the player still quits because they don’t like the match, the team, the map, the opponents etc…

same issues as before, players will just be forced to quit more matches before finding the one they want

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let’s say the avg number of members per squad in this game is 7 and only one of those is the player

that means that 6 out of the 7 kills you get, are bot kills, until we consider the amount of quitting that happens in games by the players

so for a game that has that as the foundation, br is meaningless and pointless

this isn’t warthunder where you are a single entity in the game, this game is mostly about killing the bots, and only 1 in 7 or whatever the actual ratio is, is an actual player

that then changes during a match, because if you are fighting a team and 6-8 players on their side or your side quits, that has now created a massive shift in the ratio

so instead of say 7 players and 70 bots, now you have say 2-3 players and still 70 bots

this formula doesn’t change with the new br system, because quitters are still gonna quit

and br alone won’t stop the majority of quitters, because the quitters are mostly looking for one thing in this gaming experience

they want to be the hero of that experience

and they quit matches when they cannot be the hero, and because the new system will make it harder for them to be the hero, they will have to quit more matches to find the match they seek

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It wont, you wont be there

no they dont

Nah we’re enjoying populated balanced games.

yeah, again you will be missed bye bye

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Don’t worry, I will remain around to enjoy this bonfire

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