Here’s one for the “Authentic WW2!” criers amongst us. The StG 44 feels about right in use, so I’m going to use it and the 7.92x33mm Kurz round it fires as a baseline here. It stays right where it is, at a base Hit Power of 8.0, along with it’s siblings that share the round.
Fedorov Avtomat - Remove it- I mean drop the base Hit Power from 11.6 to 11.2
The 6.5x50mmSR Arisaka (1,966 ft-lbf) hits at about 139.6% the power of the 7.92x33mm Kurz (1,408 ft-lbf) and 139.6% of 8.0 (base Hit Power of the StG 44 and siblings) is 11.2
AS-44 Model 5 - Raise the base Hit Power from 8.0 to 8.8
Have to use the 7.62x39mm (1,555 ft-lbf) instead of the 7.62x41mm prototype rounds it actually used, since there don’t appear to have been any energy tests recorded of those prototype rounds before becoming x39mms in 1947ish. They hit at about 110.4% the power of the 7.92x33mm Kurz (1,408 ft-lbf) and 110.4% of 8.0 (base Hit Power of the StG 44 and siblings) is 8.8
Hyde M1944 - Lower the base Hit Power from 7.8 to 5.5 (Yikes)
I hate to be the one to tell you this, but the .30 Carbine or 7.62x33mm round was doodoo. It was way closer to being a pistol round than a rifle one and the ballistics reflected that in a really bad way. Hence the amount of old vets who hated the thing for it’s lack of stopping power. Anyways, here’s the math explained… .30 Carbine (967 ft-lbf) hit at about 68.7% the power of the 7.92x33mm Kurz (1,408 ft-lbf) and 68.7% of 8.0 (Base Hit Power of the StG 44 and siblings) is 5.5
That’s right, everybody. You want your ARs to fit an “Authentic WW2” Enlisted? Turn your Hyde M1944s into a nerfed version of the Type 100 (late)
Ok you hit the faction least calling for making ars historical with a nerf so big you knock it out of both it’s br and class
Because the Hyde is not an ar the M2 is, just like the M2 is not a sf
Nerf the ones asking most for authenticity with no nerf, refuse to acknowledge the avotomat is not even an ar doing a 150 percent of the damage of any other
The only balanced nerf is the as44
I have not seen anyone asking for authenticity in ars but the Germans, along with sf who seem to think only they should have either.
It should be having 350-400rpm. It was a huge mistake to give it imaginary 600rpm
Let’s make AS-44 even more overpowered when compared to STG44
Nobody would be using it anymore at BR5. It wouldn’t be able to compete vs STG44 and Hei Automatic. Americans would be demanding for STG44 + Hei Automatic to give it to them.
Yeah those nerfs can’t work in real game when you fight other nations.
There has to be balance between realism and having fun, nerfing the Hyde M1944 would be bad for murica, if we leave aside that the T20 Rifle is too good and it is way better than the Hyde at anything, but still, It would not be fair for the Hyde to be nerfed in terms of damage, removing the Federov Avtomat is of the chart at this point, anyway just keep in mind that realism is no longer important in this game, it is desirable, but not the goal. I think that the game is in a good shape right now, not great not perfect but ok, good enough.
In a game where bolt action damage is about twice that of semi automatics, while using similar bullets, there’s no point in talking about realistic damage.
That is true of course - but an assault rifle from a realistic standpoint is a select fire rifle that can be used full auto up close, not a long range SMG.
Technically FG42, AVT and such should be completely unusable in full auto unless braced or in a LMG role, the whole reason why intermediate cartridges and assault rifles got invented is because they are deadly enough while also being accurate enough for long range combat (up to 300m+).
FG 42 was such a wonderful weapon because it was a LMG that also could be used very effectively as a shoulder fired semi auto rifle, but shoulder firing a FG42 in full auto is ridiculous, same goes for all the other select fire rifles.
So, if all assault rifles would get accuracy buffs and damage buffs comparable to what MGs are right now ( very high damage even at long range, but never one hit kills/downs vs vitality) I think they could get those HA justified rate of fire adjustments, without changing the meta by much, other than drastically nerfing select fire rifles recoil, people should get forced to either use semi auto - or shoot with bursts.
Thats at least how this argument should go from a realism standpoint. A gameplay “fun” argument could be made instead that BR5 full auto brrrt madness can also be fun.
I appreciate the effort, but it’s a little unnessesary.
Damage values are made up for the game (see automatic rifles VS bolt action rifles for an example), it’s not like velocity or rate-of-fire that takes the historical values straight into the game, so they’re all over the place.
Also, giving them exact damage values brings the game more into arcade. Trying to measure cartridges for minute differences that the target won’t feel the difference of is not realistic, you’re having a bad day no matter if you’re hit by a 8mm Kurz or a 7.62S. Turning the game into more of a arcade is exactly the oposite of getting the feel of the game right.
And as for .30 carbine, 5.5 is the games current damage for a weak pistol round, yes .30 carbine is weaker than normal intermediate rounds (on purpose), but .30 carbine got the same energy at 100y as a .357 Magnum does at the muzzle, it’s not weak, it’s right in the middle of the two categories (pistol and intermediate, if not a slight lean towards intermediate). The .30 carbine’s reputation was sulled by dumb people in the past thinking that it could replace the Garand and even later the M14 in service, but realisticly that was never going to happen. A 8.8 max damage of the M1/M2 compared to standard AR 9.6 is a good trade-off for accurate representation whilst still making it revelent gameplay wise.
Following on from the carbine, a lot of people have asked to buff the weapon into AR damage values, but this I reject too, instead I think a slightly different buff will do the trick, making carbines equipable on every soldier class in the game, as that was it’s historicly intended role, to be used by specialist troops, anyone whos main job isn’t infantry realisticly got either a carbine or a SMG. Giving the carbines more situations to be used is exactly the buff it needs, as it’s got a role in the current game but it’s being held back by unreasonable restrictions (hell, they’re perfect for APC drivers and tankers, but they can’t use them for some reason despite that being historicly its indended role). You can read more about that here on an old suggestion of mine: Introduce a "Carbine" Weapon Class
Not “no point”, but these semantics are too much, yes the .30 Carbine and 8mm Kurz rounds should be different, but not by this much! They’re perfectly reasonable balance between realism and gameplay needs as is right now.
totally unrealistic for balance. devs would also need to nerf japan BA, SA and SF rifles.not to mention equalize BA, SA/SF and MG-s, making BA unviable even for BR2 matches.
simply failed suggestion…
also even .22 bullet can kill and it is 15-20x weaker than AR bullet by force.
yea, bullet damage is a very complicated topic to begin with, a 5.56 soft core round with the right velocity can be more devastating than full powered rifle rounds.
velocity and mass result in energy - but bullet design is often much much more important than that. The question about damage is “how well the projectiles energy gets absorbed by the target”, and when a bullet has a wider shape it makes a bigger hole - thats one thing, but if a bullet manages to fully penetrate the target it will create only a clean hole. True damage happens when the bullet deforms, fragments and gets slowed down by tissue. In other words, if a bullet doesn’t exit the target, it will have fully transferred its energy into said target.
Yep. About a million different variables in how a bullet will actually interact with it’s target, and another million in how that target will react to the bullet hitting it. I just thought this extremely simplified math was cool. And it explains the hatred many of the M1 Carbine users had for it.