Nice topic! I hadn’t seen it.
Also I will update the post about the Tokyo Arsenal 1927 mag size, thank you. I thought that the 18 rounds mag was only for the Tokyo Arsenal 1928, which is now lost, and I saw that some sources/topics claimed the box mag was 30 rounds for the 1927. You seem to have a lot of valuable informations.
1 Like
It is most likely the same store that decided to test on the Tokyo Arsenal model 1927 since the Tokyo Arsenal model 1928 was not yet ready at that time, but this is just a theory.
1 Like
Thx boss got some new cookies you can add to your list though these are super rare since these were exported in single digit numbers for testing purposes
Approximately from 1927 to 1931, Japanese representatives purchased individual samples of self-loading and automatic rifles from Denmark, France, Czechoslovakia, England, and the USA.
1-Madsen-Rasmusen 1896
The rifle was rejected due to the complexity of the mechanism.(9-10 round)
2- RSC 17
The rifle was rejected by Japanese due to its weight of 5275 grams, frequent breakdown of mechanisms and springs, and a special pack for cartridges.
3- Vickers Pedersen T2E1 Experimental Rifle
the Pedersen rifle from Vickers-Armstrong was purchased in several samples. Pedersen rifle model 1930, caliber .276 (wrantless), non-detachable magazine, loaded with a pack of 10 rounds. The rifle underwent extensive testing and was copied by the Koishikawa Army Arsenal.
4- M1922 Bang rifle
for comparative tests (not for adoption), Bang-Springfield rifles of the 1922 model and Browning systems of the 1918-1922 model (known as the Browning light machine gun. BAR m1918) of 7.62x63 mm caliber were purchase
The rifle was used in comparative tests with Japanese experimental designs.
That’s from me boss keep these until I find more cookies if I find something interesting will post here
3 Likes
At a minimum, there was a purchase of a Thompson M1921 submachine gun, which was tested together with the Tokyo Arsenal model 1927.
But in fact, I would like Japanese weapons, maybe Chinese trophies, but not single copies for tests, in this case we can distribute the same Thompson to all nations.
1 Like
You are looking very narrowly we dont have records of for example Madsen-Rasmusen 1896 being used in ww2 by any nation but we know that Japan tested them so yeah there is no reason why not give them that and none of the weapons above are in game so I dont see any problem Japan getting them
Hmmm…
Why don’t I try making a list of weapons?
Japan has a number of pullmets with the ability to mount a telescopic sight, but the Type 97 we have in our game is a gunner’s weapon, not a sniper’s weapon. So I’ll just list the weapons with the ability to mount a telescopic sight:
All rifles of the Type Hei series (Type 97 telescopic sight):
Type 96:
Type 99:
Type Otsu (Type 97 telescopic sight):
Type Ko / Type Ko long (Type 97 telescopic sight):
Kokura arsenal rifle (Type 97 telescopic sight):
Type 92 heavy machine gun:
4 Likes
There are still questionable options whose existence is in doubt.
Chinese Type 97:
It’s basically a Japanese Tpp 97 captured by the Kaitians, then let’s imagine it could have been brought back to them by the Japanese and put a telescopic sight
.
Type 97 (30 rounds):
At the machine gun competition (where the Type 99 won) there was a machine gun that was fed by magazines similar to the ZB 26 magazines (the same we can see in the Type 97), the capacity of these magazines in the Experimental Type 1 light machine gun Model III was 30 rounds, and it is possible that this 30 round magazine was also suitable for the Type 97 machine gun.
3 Likes
Oh, nice. I hadn’t seen that the Type Otsu had a rail on it, but the problem with this one is the fact that the rail is mounted on top, and all the japanese scopes I know of are all mounted on the side. Anyway, I’ll write what I had in store for this part. I won’t add some pictures, because you already did most of the guns I had planned, but there are still some not here.
1 Like
This is probably why the Type Otsu has the front sight shifted to the side, so as not to interfere with the telescopic sight.
Sniper rifles/weapons
Arisaka Type 38 Kai (basically just a factory Type 38 which was converted to a sniper rifle, the only difference with the Type 97 sniper rifle is the fact that it didn’t have a monopod, and it still had the « Type 38 » markings, which potentially make the Type 97 ingame a Type 38 Kai because it doesn’t have the monopod)
You can clearly see the monopod, which the ingame Type 97 rifle lacks
Arisaka Type 99 with 4x scope
Another 4x scope
And the rest that you already posted, I won’t post pics (at least not now, I’ll do it if I have time, but it’s not a priority now).
Scoped Type 96 MG
Scoped Type 99 MG
Scoped Type 97 MG (remove the scope from the standard Type 97 for the machinegunner class, and make the scoped variant available only to snipers)
Scoped Type 91 MG
Scoped Type 4 MG (could be controversial, because this prototype doesn’t seem to have any iron sights, so you can’t just remove the scope and give it to the machinegunner class and keep the scoped version for the sniper class like I suggested for the other scoped MGs, and I doubt that the devs want to give a belt-fed MG to snipers, lol)
Weapons that could be fitted with scopes but unclear if they truly were at some point :
Type Ko rifle
Type Otsu rifle
Type Hei rifle (early and late)
Type Hei LMG
Kokura Arsenal rifle
Most of these weapons are already in the game, but you can see that they all have a rail on the left side for adapting a scope (on top of the rifle for the Type Otsu). I’m personally not a big fan of these, but it’s still an idea to be considered, and if they are implemented into the game, I think all these rifles, except the Kokura Arsenal rifle (which was made in the 1940s) should be fitted with a 2.5x scope, because these rifles were made before WW2, and the 4x scope was adopted later, which makes the Kokura Arsenal rifle the only one which could have got a 4x scope.
6 Likes
FOR MY SOURCES
I used different websites, the most well-known being Wikipedia but in japanese, then you just have to use google translate on the page, and you have a lot of informations that the english Wikipedia doesn’t have.
I also used Gun Wiki: Gun Wiki | Fandom for most of the pistols.
Of course, there is Forgotten Weapons: Forgotten Weapons with the website of Rock Island Auction for some of the guns that Gun Jesus showcased.
There is also Military History Wiki: Military Wiki | Fandom
But also some not well-known website, like Lone Sentry, where I found pics of the mortar Type 3 and the spigot grenade launchers: Japanese – Catalog of Enemy Ordnance
I also found another link of this Lone Sentry with more pics of the grenade launchers a few minutes ago, enjoy: 1. Pistols, Revolvers, and Rifles | Section II: Infantry Weapons | Chapter IX: Weapons | TM-E 30-480: Handbook on Japanese Military Forces, Technical Manual, U.S. War Department, October 1, 1944 (Lone Sentry)
Link of the Type 99 for paratroopers: Takedown Guns: Freaky Weird, Crazy Cool - Small Arms Review
Found some info about it here as well: Type 96, Type 99 - Modern Firearms
Pics of the Type 92 (Lewis copy): Type 92 Ground Model – The Armory
Other pics on the same website as the Type 99 paratroopers: Lewis - Modern Firearms
And finally, the very cool drawings of the spigot grenade launchers were found here, there are other very detailed drawings as well: https://weaponsandwarfare.com/japanese-small-arms/
I also have some books on the subject, but of course there are no links.
1 Like
This new Lone Sentry link is a goldmine too, I found some interesting stuff there. Here you can clearly see the differences between the Type 38 rifle, short rifle and carbine:
More pics of the spigot grenade launchers:
3 Likes
Ah, and I almost forgot the links to the 3D models of the Type 4 experimental tank MG and the experimental 13.2mm AT rifle:
MG: https://assets.clip-studio.com/ja-jp/detail?id=1940448
AT Rifle: https://assets.clip-studio.com/ja-jp/detail?id=2005986
What I did is: I went to wikipedia in japanese, translated the page in english and went to the classification table at the end of any japanese WW2 weapon page, where you see all the other links to the other japanese weapons of WW2, then I went to the articles, and copy pasted the title (the name of the weapons in this case) of the pages in japanese language, and found the results in the pictures section of google.
Here are the wikipedia links in japanese:
MG: 試製四式車載重機関銃 - Wikipedia
AT Rifle: 十三粍手動銃 - Wikipedia
Hmm Nice I found somthing,too though it is not good for TT since it would cause a red revoulotion but imma say it Japanese had captured AVS-36s and AF(Avtomat Federov)
"December 22, 1938. Order signed by Rikyu Hiroshi, Army Supply Adjutant (at Air Army Headquarters) to the Technical Supply Department. “Conduct a general inspection, description, measurements and drawings, and operating diagrams of the mechanisms of the received sample of automatic rifle. Received on December 8, 1938 from the Department of Registration and Collection of Captured Weapons in a set: automatic rifle “Fuedorofu” type 1925 (フェドロフ 1925式), signal pistol (flare gun), automatic pistol type “Korofuin”, pistol type “Nagant””. Automatic rifle (as it is written) “Fuedorofu” has damage.
Also there was a testing result in this entry under the name “Sakarōfu” which is Simonov in Japanese
From Army Department Main Records Entery No: 7576
1 Like
LOL, it looks very much like they just confused the 1930 Degtyarev semi-automatic rifle with the Fedorov assault rifle.
Beside these my research let me to this apparently there was an Idea to turn type 96 Anti-aircraft cannon to AT gun
It is single shot though this was just an idea and it was dismissed since they concluded that this thing would cause damage to shooter .
P.S. of course there is bayonet its not like this thing gonna be heavy and not allow you to charge
2 Likes
It would be useful to know if it was ever built, because I’m really not into paper guns. It would be even better if there was a pic of it.
For the 13.2mm AT rifle, the wikipedia article in japanese says that it was tested and performed well, but the development was stopped because the cartridge was considered as not powerful enough. The only “pics” I have found are the ones on the japanese 3D models website, that’s why I said that I am not sure if these “pics” are legit or not.
1 Like
The type 96 AT gun wasnt made there is just the paper like I said it was dismissed it was considered too dangerous for shooter Imma do some more research for interesting things since Im tired now gonna see what I can find tomorrow
1 Like
About foreign weapons, I am not really against it, some are already in the tree after all, like the KE7 and the chinese-bought SIG Bergmann, but I would like these weapons to have at least seen some use in the japanese armed forces, just like the ZB26 for example, which was unofficially adopted. The simple “test weapons” like you have suggested are a bit too much in my opinion, because every nation in the world has always tested the weapons made by the other nations, and if we follow that logic, all the nations could pretty much have all the weapons made during WW2.
So I would still prefer unique japanese prototypes, to keep the tree unique, or foreign weapons which were “unofficially adopted”.
1 Like