I think so too:
They want what they dislike nerfed, but not what they are using themselves. It’s like many other “balance” suggestions in the end about planes, tanks… you name it.
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Or we could simply un-nerf semis and buff bolt action damage.
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exactly! instead of nerfing everything why not buff anything that needs it? seems like a no brainer.
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actually… as simple as it may sound… It could work for a time until they (DF) think of a more permanent solution… 
Not sure bolties need a huge damage buff… But being one of the few using them a lot, I selfishly wouldn’t object, eheheh 
metete bro
Moscow Axis is a good example for this. Imagine a zh-29 vs AVS 36. zh-29 is a 10 round semi-auto which has it’s fire rate nerfed too shit, whilst the AVS laughs ,with its 15 rounds, as it’s Rate of Fire can’t be nerfed as it is a Select fire.
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I don’t think that’d be necessary. Cause currently, the only weapons which are truly suffering from SF rifles are semis and bolts. Everything else is doing fine (except shotguns, but those are a totally different matter). If we give all bolts more hitpower and buffed the semis rof, then things should be fairly balanced. Only a few specific guns would need changes (G41).
They kinda do, I’d say. Especially the carbines. Cause let’s be honest, 13 hitpower just isn’t cutting it.
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carbines are a bit weaker…
But I still love them! I still wouldn’t mind them punching a bit harder though.
Honestly don’t know how you can bear with them…
Hitting someone twice with a bolt carbine and still having them survive is just painful.
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Funnily enough most people reeeeing specifically for the FG-42s. Wonder why 
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They might get some change too. I have not in all my spread sheets really assigned value to anything yet trying to figure out what values are best.
The core change in squads coming into battle will effect the battlefield, much like how MWO had drop weights that mean if you try and min max it usually doesn’t work.
Now for F2P players they will only have say one lmg or smg squad able to go at a time, where as a maxed paying player can take 8 infantry squads so there will be duplicates , which will mean that a small change might need to apply to them, a thought of mine would be to make it so each squad can only be used 1 time of every 4 cycles instead of 3.
That is why some of what I and others propose is a global solution vs a specific one. Nerfing or buffing in this specific case won’t solve anything. But balancing the squads that you take and what their composition is can potentially fix that.
Again, all said and done I dont know if this is the solution, I’ve seen it be successful in other titles. So to me its worth the try.
Well, one thing tho, I for example like to focus on one particular role, meaning on Normandy I am playing all 3 infantry squads as sniper squads at the moment, because I like to focus on one thing the entire match. ( and yea I know sniper squads kinda “low tier”, trying things out dont judge me)
If I play with my mates, I usually pick lots of AT soldiers or focus on building radios and ammo, just so that everyone else can focus on their thing.
I dont think “spamming the same squad type is a problem at all” however I think we all agree that we have the big problem of basically only “one or two” options being top tier, thus we see only SMG squads on soviet side because the PPSH can compete with the FG, while on other nations or campaigns we see “a bit” more diversity.
Still why pick a 9 man squad with Semi autos when you can have 4 Soldiers with a Thompson?
We need more diversity and more powerful stuff to chose from instead of just the same guns every single match.
I would say that the top tier guns are just these few, while only the first 3 being the best in total:
-STG
-FG42
-PPSH
-(M2 Carbine)
-(Thompson)
-(some MGs sometimes)
Now imagine the list would be larger, what you call spamming would disappear.
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Honestly, I’d say the other way is true. We only really see FG spam, as it’s the only thing that can truly counter the PPSh, with the only other possible option being the Mg34/42.
Doesn’t deserve to be there. It’s barely usable due to a combination of crap recoil and sights that cause mental pain to the user. I could think of like 20 better guns than it.
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What I mean with that is, FG 42 can be used in trooper squads, mixed together with assault squads, as well as inside of support units like pioneers and AT squads.
All that while to use the PPSH you need to stick to assault, (with the exception of AT squad having the ability to pick assaulter with the sacrifice of one pioneer)
That kinda forces the soviets to spam assault squads.
also to note, the soviet selectfire weapon is also not useless, but low mag capacity kinda makes is fall behind alot.
Yeah, the AVS is kinda what I meant by that. The soviets can use it and it’s pretty damn good. They simply just use the PPSh instead cause it’s borderline broken.
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Of which would be fixed by the above mentioned suggestions.
With the FG42 being limited in deployment makes it so the disparity of Automatics and SF is significantly reduced.
Now that won’t stop the spam on its own. People might spam because they are honestly trying to counter , but they also spam to win. Players will take the shortest path to victory possible.
Which is why the second limit mentioned comes into play.
Sometimes it works , sometimes it doesn’t. The key is to at least try it and see.
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well you are right, It would absolutely fix the problem, yet I see this whole topic from a different perspective, let me explain… for me one of the most “important” things about playing a shooter these days is the time to kill and 90% of the patches we got in the past months were all filled up with nerfs.
-shotguns got nerfed into oblivion(luckily got buffed again)
-select fire weapons had their ammo reduced
-MGs got nerfed with the movement penalty
-all semi and full automatic guns in general got their accuracy nerfed
-semi auto rifles got their fire rate nerfed
I fear that we keep on getting nerfs here and there untill one hit kills are gone and this would be in its core then yet another call of duty clone, at least for me.
I like the gameplay of the current … well lets call it “meta” besides the fact that “diversity is lacking”
So lets say we nerf every gun to be as effective as boltaction rifles are right now, the would be “diverse” and “balanced” however a total different experience.
I do not want that to happen, thats why I am in general against more nerfs and restrictions.
The only restriction I would like to see would be FG 42 and such to be gone from regular Trooper units — however if that happens, SMG would dominate the game, thus I also want buffs for FG42 and such, so that they are powerful in their own “restricted” role, what ever it may be, as well as buffs for bolt actions and Semi auto rifles.
Face it, the fact that ppl are “ununited” about the selectfire topic is because they either like the players to have “a lot” of fire power, or they would like the meatgrinder to “cool” down a little— all while both parties agree that something needs to be done.
We need buffs and not nerfs
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‘meta squad spam is only ok when my faction does it’
mains should not be allowed opinions on balance
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It is good to have different views on the same problem. There exists a potential to actually fix it then.
If they would class restrict it, then there needs to be a new class introduced because it really doesn’t fit the current suggestions IMO.
But my fear is like the Semi Auto Nerf, more people would migrate to SMG and LMG only squads as a result.
Interestingly enough I didn’t run up against the high end SF rifles a ton while I was playing this game until after the Semi Auto Nerf. Even for myself, I had maybe 1 to 2 per squad with the rest being BAs and G43s. Because they were fair and could compete well even for beginning level players against the late level stuff.
But the more we restrict and change without addressing all the other collateral results, the more we make this game even less diverse.
The one thing that hooked me and the other people I got into this game was the weapon diversity. We can have that and keep the TTK in play by making adjustments to the core.
Maybe even revisit the Vitality perks perhaps.
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Small side note, thanks everyone for contributing in the thread and having it be, a very insightful and good discussion.
Its nice to see that.
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