Currently tools are only useful for the repair of tanks. My suggestion is to make them more than just repair tools. Remove the standard ability to “deconstruct” fortifications from infantry as it is currently. Make it cost a unit of “tools” from a players inventory. If none are present, they cannot deconstruct fortifications. This would greatly help balancing efforts:
No longer would attacking enemies be able to break down fortifications in mass by just holding a button for no cost.
Small and Large backpacks would be more useful. It could help cut down on the number of players that spam grenade pouches.
TNT is still an option with which to break through areas with heavy fortifications.
– Make Czech hedgehogs unable to be placed indoors, but also make them require 2 sets of tools to break down. If a player only has one available, its given half deconstruction, which can then be finished with a second set of tools.
This prevents tank crews from easily breaking down the fortifications meant to impede them for little to no cost.
Making this change could help greatly shift the balance away from grenade spam and make defensive fortifications more valuable as it would make them harder to break down. After all, because it takes a specific type of soldier to put fortifications up, it should have a cost to break them down.
I would like to see the Engineers have the ability to blow up and dismantle tank wreckage.
I often see tanks being destroyed on narrow roads, blocking the passage of following tanks.
The reason I suggest it requiring 2 is that otherwise tankers would be able to pass with ease without really having much of a cost. After all, they generally only need to remove 1 hedgehog in order to get through. Considering a player can only put out a maximum of 6, it would be far to easy to bypass them if the cost was only 1.
It is already rather painful task to do under grenade spam, artillery, bombardment, enemy fire, flames and what else. Dont exactly see a single reason to do it even more painful.
Or just remove them entirely as they arent exactly necessary to anything.
Is it ? I dont recall ever destroying hedgehog with tnt. NVM mixed detpack / tnt.
So engineer from any squad can place X amount of hedgehogs with hammer but it requires 2 infantry with toolboxes to disassemble it ?
What balance is this ?
Like the tankers life wasnt already hard enough ?
If the tanker has to get out of tank to dissassemble the hedgehog theres more than enough time for you to kill him. If not, its your problem.
Lets imagine theres hedgehog at bridge with your settings. Tanker cant do shit to it, so hes stuck.
And how many of the players would sacrifice large ammo bag / grenade pouch just to have few toolboxes for those rare occasions theres tanker in need ? Uhm no one.
No it wont.
It would just make them “OP” as no one will sacrifice more valuable items for toolboxes.
Every squad can have and most likely has a engineer as its meta to have one.
So its not exactly comparable in any manner.
Czech Hedgehogs are very situational and not used much, they definitely could use a buff no doubt about that. I think the deconstruct time should increase at bare minimum.
Not really, considering there isn’t really a way to do windowed sandbags (which would help with cover and still allow you to shoot out) enemies usually can drop a little smoke and run right up to it. It’s rarely “difficult” in the current setup to deconstruct fortifications.
They are currently good for packing extra medkits, but my whole point is to increase their usefulness by adding this mechanic in. If it was much more difficult to get through fortifications, there would likely be considerably less people packing full squads of grenade spam.
TNT is very useful for taking out large amounts of sandbags and barbwire in one go. As far as Czech Hedgehogs, I have seen them break on rare occasion if the ground beneath them is destroyed by bomb or TNT. However, this only really works on soft soil.
It requires not just an engineer, but the limited materials that an engineer carries as well. Considering that a maximum of 6 can be placed per player, and it usually takes a minimum of 3 to block an area against tanks, which they only need to remove 1 to pass, I’d say thats a pretty fair and even balance.
The whole point of the system I’m suggesting is to cut down on a lot of the major problems that are currently being complained about. Grenade spam, greyzone tanks, and obviously breaking down fortifications too easily. The thing is, by making fortifications harder to deal with via infantry, there will be a lot more reason to push forward with tanks, to clear barbwire, breach sandbags, provide infantry cover, etc. Czech hedgehogs would be a counter to the new-found power of tanks. It would definitively change how the game is played, which is a good thing.
Would players sacrifice ammo bag/grenade pouch for toolboxes? I honestly believe a lot more people than you think would. If it becomes a lot more difficult for them to push forward into range and a position for them to use the grenades, they would definitely sacrifice a couple pouches for toolkits.
ONE being the keyword here. In comparison, how many assaulters are generally on the field? Its only “meta” to have them for rally points and ammo boxes. Mainly because everything else is too easy to break down.
Well, attackers dont really have safety of fortifications so if you let someone to run nexto your fortification and disassemble it then ur doing something wrong.
Something thats useless dont really have to be forced to be useful.
No they wouldnt, just like everyone dont build rallies either.
Theres reason it has limited materials.
And we’re back at subject if you let the attacker disassemble them your doing something wrong.
Which neither is solved by this
Theyr durability can be increased as well as disassembly time.
Tanks wont push forward because of detpacks, other tanks & planes. Not because of fortifications.
If the fortifications were to be done like your suggesting then it would be just one more reason to stay at greyzone as sure as hell no one will sacrifice crucial equipment for toolboxes.
We already have capability build radios for example for benefit of team, yet its fairly small minority per game that does so.
Also we have ability to escort tanks with infantry so enemy wont just run with detpack to destroy it.
Yet that doesnt ever happen.
Im quite sure, no one would.
Looking at moscow maps for example in fair share of them you need to cross open rivers / fields and what else in order to get in to cap point.
I simply dont see a single reason to make that attack even harder.
Well you can take engineer squad and you have plenty of engis, far more hedgehogs than enemy team possibly could dissassemble.
If theres 2 engi squads in defending team then the game is lost already for attackers as they wont be doing anything else than trying to disassemble hedgehogs.
Attackers do benefit from fortifications, if you are using them correctly. Dig a trench, put up sandbags, you can move a LOT of troops across with relative safety. It just takes some time and teamwork.
You know that each player is limited to 6 hedgehogs each right? Its limited by player, not by squad. So even if 2 players are putting up fortifications, that’s still a limit of 12 hedgehogs.
– Instead of just shooting things down, perhaps try adding something useful and constructive to the conversation.
And how many engineers theres in engi squad ? 3 ? thats 18 hedghehogs and if theres 2 engi squads its 36 hedgehogs which requires 72 toolboxes to disassemble.
Yeah, your not doing much else than disassembling hedgehogs.
Each player is limited to 6 hedgehogs total. It doesn’t matter if you switch engineers, or even squads. Each player is limited in how many total structures they can have out at once. So:
Doesn’t matter. There could be 1, or 3, or even 6 engineers, you are still capped to 6 total hedgehogs per player.
We should get XP for building holes or trenches that allies use and take cover from bullets
Also we shouldn’t be able to dismantle something through the wall, so according to @TUSUPOLISI69 it’s skill issue if an enemy dismantles your stuff through a wall you can’t see through, sounds reasonable sure…
Moscow sawmil as example, theres 1 crossing where tanks can cross the river from a to b.
lets say just 6 hedgehogs there would stop tank crossing entirely untill attackers have captured B so tanks can die to greyzone and spawn otherside.
Tanks has shitty MG’s, HE is now nerfed rather effectively, planes hunt them with magic markers, detpacks & rather shitty cross terrain ability.
So your asking to add to this list hedgehogs that can be only disassembled with 2 toolbox ? rendering the tank play even less fun than what it currently is ?
So how exactly is this even more limited movability for tankers actually decreasing the greyzone campping rather than effectively increasing it ?
Got to admit didnt even know such bug exists but yeah, lets just say its as well skill issue. Ur supposed to protect the cap area not just the inside of it.
I’m very familiar with the map. While putting down hedgehogs on the crossing would make it more difficult to cross, i’d say its a very long way from impossible. I’ve had games there several times in the last couple of nights. It’s rarely an issue as smoke is usually used to cover the river crossing anyways. Use smoke and a little teamwork and you can cross. On top of that, there are really strong angles of attack that the tanks can take advantage of from their side.
JaredUp makes a very valid point. Enemies breaking things down from behind walls is a huge issue. Is it a skill issue like you think it is? Absolutely not. Setting up solid defenses takes time, and usually to set up an area that you have a counter-angle to keep them off the front door, you are usually exposed to snipers, bombers, artillery fire, etc. Protecting the inside of the cap is nearly impossible with enemies able to break things down at no cost, let alone trying to cover more area than that even.
It takes time to set up defenses that actually can withstand attacks, but the game currently just lets offense keep steamrolling forward without hardly anything that can really stop them.
Perhaps you should use the smoke while building ? Perhaps you should use smoke to conceal your fortifications ?
Perhaps you shouldnt build nexto wall if bug allows disassembly thru wall ?
Or perhaps you should use smoke to hide said wall ?
There you go, you kinda solved your original problem.
So I just did some testing tonight: both TNT and aircraft bombs will destroy Czech Hedgehogs with ease. My point about making them harder to deconstruct just got a lot more valid because of it.
I have been seeing a strategy more often where the enemy team will purposely suicide their tank into certain trenches so that players (or bots) either catch on fire or have to climb up and around the obstacle making it to where they are sitting ducks getting gunned down as they climb around. I definitely would like to see an option for this.
As much as I use this, it really should be changed. It would help if you had to have a persistent line of sight for anything you build or deconstruct.
Points for digging trenches is a big must for me too. Shovel trenches are sometimes necessary for certain campaigns, and digging them out isn’t quick at all