The Tank Damage Model is absolutely unacceptable

[GodWentAFK]

It’s so bad that people who purchased premium tank squads should legitimately have the option for a refund because the product does not perform as it should. This isn’t specific to any one type of tank, though some are clearly worse than others.

For instance, the Panther frequently fails to pen the upper front plate of a T-34, and can’t pen the turret cheeks. This is just absurd. As a 10 year War Thunder player, when I purchased the Panther premium to grind Berlin, I expected it to penetrate the T-34 and IS tanks as it should, given that enlisted attempted to implement WT’s damage models. At the same time, T-34s have a hard time penetrating the in places where they easily should in this game. It’s just a battle of RNG and BS. The T-50 is another great example of a tank that is immune to things that should easily penetrate it.

Post-pen shrapnel is completely absent. Every round in this game performs like it is APCR. Not only is there absolutely no spalling or explosive filler modeled, but almost every AP/APHE round in the game requires multiple hits to ammunition to detonate it.

I’m not even going to go into how terrible the splash damage/shrapnel model is for HE rounds, as I assume the developers intend for it to be that way.

If you can’t get War Thunder’s damage model working semi-decently, just go to hitpoints. Don’t get me wrong, the War Thunder style damage model is one of the main draws of this game, at least for me. In it’s current state, however, calling tank combat “playable” would be generous. Until the developers can fix their implementation of the damage model, the game would be much better off if they went with a simple hitpoint system as seen in games like battlefield.

[FightingFish8]

@GodWentAFK

If you can’t get War Thunder’s damage model working semi-decently, just go to hitpoints.

From what I remember warthunder’s models for tanks is different than enlisted’s models due to the latter being the older warthunder model. Take with a grain of salt but would make since if you’re experiencing a difference in damage models.

@GodWentAFK

It’s so bad that people who purchased premium tank squads should legitimately have the option for a refund because the product does not perform as it should.

Tank is still preforming as a tank, I understand frustration from it not preforming absolutely amazing but it’s one thing I like about enlisted is that premium tanks don’t outperform their free counterpart other than not having to grind levels for the tank squad.

@GodWentAFK

At the same time, T-34s have a hard time penetrating the in places where they easily should in this game. It’s just a battle of RNG and BS. The T-50 is another great example of a tank that is immune to things that should easily penetrate it.

I’ve never really encountered RNG but bs maybe sometimes (looking at you ammo racking and hellcat? that or it’s called wolverine for Allies in Normandy with the open top) but it’s more towards learning weak points of enemy tanks, the practice field is a great place to learn alongside looking at the armor and x-ray model to see impossible to pen areas and easy to pen areas.

@GodWentAFK

I’m not even going to go into how terrible the splash damage/shrapnel model is for HE rounds, as I assume the developers intend for it to be that way.

That was intentionally nerfed due to some HE abuse, I’m not too big of a fan of the HE nerf since you ricochet off the ground but apparently hitting a dude kills everyone in a 10 meter radius instead of passing through him.

@GodWentAFK

If you can’t get War Thunder’s damage model working semi-decently, just go to hitpoints.

Hit points are a DEFINITE NO, the model we have now is way better than any hit point model that could be implemented especially with how infantry interact with tank combat for example if someone throws a det pack under a tank it should blow them up not take enter% here of health to take from tank.

@GodWentAFK

In it’s current state, however, calling tank combat “playable” would be generous.

Tank combat is decently fun at the moment in my opinion, most beginner tanks can take out later campaign tanks with skill and knowing where to shoot and knowing the usual tank routes. Although grey zone camping is annoying but that’s a entirely different topic.

@GodWentAFK

Until the developers can fix their implementation of the damage model, the game would be much better off if they went with a simple hitpoint system as seen in games like battlefield.

Still a definite no on a hit point system especially using battlefield as a base since both have their own unique gameplay foundation especially with tank crews involved since tanks in battlefield are basically a power weapon on the map while tanks are more towards support and suppression units with deeper details.

Edit was spelling mistakes and clarification with one sentence

[deadgerbil]

[Silmary_fr]

Russian BIAS dude !

[Inferno1001001]

@GodWentAFK

For instance, the Panther frequently fails to pen the upper front plate of a T-34, and can’t pen the turret cheeks.

Quite literally a skill issue/gaijiggled, I did this roughly two days ago. Twice

@GodWentAFK

when I purchased the Panther premium to grind Berlin

Waste of money, you can just get the gold order Panther, the exp bonus from a premium squad is BARELY worth it

@GodWentAFK

Every round in this game performs like it is APCR. Not only is there absolutely no spalling or explosive filler modeled, but almost every AP/APHE round in the game requires multiple hits to ammunition to detonate it.

Also just no, I’ve easily ammoracked many tanks in one shot, like this

@GodWentAFK

I’m not even going to go into how terrible the splash damage/shrapnel model is for HE rounds, as I assume the developers intend for it to be that way.

Correct, I can’t argue with you here lmao, it’s basically hit someone directly or flip a coin to get gaijined

@GodWentAFK

just go to hitpoints

No.

[SilentHaven]

I bought the Churchill in the Normandy campaign and I not only have a blast with it, but I also tend to do really well!

The only time I do not do well is when the enemy team is stacked with late campaign gear and Tigers. Any other time, the Churchill is really difficult to take down! When its played correctly anyways.

I have no trouble killing enemy tanks. Even Tigers can be taken out with a single shot if you do it right. If you are having trouble learning where to shoot, go to the practice range.

The HE is powerful as well! You just have to know where to shoot it. It takes a little more effort than “just point in general direction and click.” Which is a good thing for game balance.

This game is NOT War Thunder. Its penetration values and game mechanics are completely different from it. If you came into the game thinking it would work exactly the same, that was your own assumption. Maybe do some research before spending your money.

Don’t get mad and demand changes just because it does not work how you wanted it to. Or are you mad because you thought you were buying an advantage with your premium purchase and realized it is not any better than what other people got for free? You bought a panther, so I assume you were hoping to just one click kill everything. Sorry, that is not how it works here.

[SilentHaven]

@FightingFish8

That was intentionally nerfed due to some HE abuse, I’m not too big of a fan of the HE nerf since you ricochet off the ground but apparently hitting a dude kills everyone in a 10 meter radius instead of passing through him.

You know, I have taken part in multiple conversations about this and I have never seen my rounds bounce off the ground in battle. The only time I ever managed to pull it off was with a panzer IV in the training ground…and that was after several shots of intentionally trying to bounce it.

I wonder what causes this issue for so many people?

[CaptainSebekel]

@SilentHaven

This game is NOT War Thunder

No its just advertising with realistic models and behaviour from WT and bascially uses shitty bugged old models from WT… completely different,

[SilentHaven]

“Shitty bugged old models” are still “realistic models and behavior from WT.” So its not like they lied.

There is no way they could use War Thunder’s current game mechanics and tank values in Enlisted. It would be impossible to balance.

In War Thunder, tanks do not have to worry about infantry when they make flanks to overcome weaknesses in another tank’s armor. The maps are also much larger with longer sight lines and more open space between terrain.

Enlisted tanks are pretty much required to stay with or behind infantry and have more to do than simply hunt enemy tanks.

You simply can not play the two games the same way, thus they needed to be done differently.

[CaptainSebekel]

@SilentHaven

realistic models and behavior from WT.

So buggy and ill-functional and nerfed or buffed values/ arealistix values is still realistic… yeah…

@SilentHaven

Enlisted tanks are pretty much required to stay with or behind infantry and have more to do than simply hunt enemy tanks.

Then why do we even have light tanks to begin with if they are still slow, mostly have poor anti-inf performance and get OHKed by T34s and Tigers and in return mostly deal next to no dmg to them except for the sake of grind?

@SilentHaven

hus they needed to be done differently

Then dont advertise with WT or finally make the goddam maps bigger.

[SilentHaven]

@CaptainSebekel

So buggy and ill-functional and nerfed or buffed values/ arealistix values is still realistic… yeah…

You say that likes its fact and not your angered opinion. Most of my gameplay is in tanks. Its completely functional and effective.

@CaptainSebekel

Then why do we even have light tanks to begin with if they are still slow, mostly have poor anti-inf performance and get OHKed by T34s and Tigers and in return mostly deal next to no dmg to them except for the sake of grind?

Light tanks can do some flanking, but its not like they are scout cars. You can’t have them just mowing down infantry either. That would ruin the game for everyone else. Although you can do some decent damage with a SMG from the commander’s hatch.

They should not be fighting against larger tanks soon either, once the new match making system starts. Although I’d argue that flanking a Tiger with a Stuart is one of the surest ways to kill it.

@CaptainSebekel

Then dont advertise with WT or finally make the goddam maps bigger.

The only ones who got into Enlisted thinking it was War thunder are ones who willingly went into the game blind. Any research online would have told you otherwise. Have you heard of Youtube? Or are you often lead by the nose by advertisements and take everything they say literally and to heart?

Seriously, you are complaining that an advert mislead you. I think most people would be embarrassed by that. If you feel like the game is not as advertised, nothing is keeping you around. Don’t expect the game to drastically change just because you thought it should be something different. Feel free to make complaints about flaws or balance issues, but don’t go demanding it be remade into an entirely different game.

Enlisted is not War Thunder. It was never meant to be War Thunder. The tank game play will never be like War Thunder’s, for the simple reason that it can’t function the same way with the addition of infantry. Let it go.

[CaptainSebekel]

@SilentHaven

Its completely functional and effective.

Looking at the increasing number of complaints and low playerbase, people might want to discuss that.
And it is still not realistic.

@SilentHaven

flanking

“Flanking”… like most maps allow serious flanking of tanks and just drive 50 mins to left and maybe get behind a house and call it flanking.
And you dont really need lights for that because they are most marginally faster than meds.

@SilentHaven

You can’t have them just mowing down infantry either. That would ruin the game for everyone else.

Rn they all spawn camp and it doesn’t make people really that happy as well, especially since people cant really reach them at all as long as they don’t have high end rocket launchers or suiciding their inf soldiers. I also don’t know why people would struggle to kill lights with a rocket launcher or det packs.

@SilentHaven

They should not be fighting against larger tanks soon either

Yeah because they dont work like lights aka cant flank and have next to no better anti inf capabilities beyond faster reload time for shitty cannons.
But hey… system “works” even if lights cant do light jobs and suck at every aspect. Good system.

@SilentHaven

The only ones who got into Enlisted thinking it was War thunde

Yeah, if devs keep mentioning War Thunder, use older shitty models from WT (most likely because they forgot to update them over the years) and plan to even make the tech tree and mm a WT-copy for poors with inf… yeah why do people keep thinking its similar to War Thunder?

@SilentHaven

Any research online would have told you otherwise

Any research otherwise shows that the game once again intentionally wrongly advertise the game. But that’s okay because for you its fine.

@SilentHaven

advert mislead yo

Because devs keep lying and goofing around with “technically” which leads to a stagnated playerbase and a game that is full of bugs, broken features, and an increasing number of pissed players
Why don’t just say “we adjusted or balanced tanks so they maybe make inf vs. tank less broken” but then I have the feeling that this doesn’t attract as many players as “our tank gameplay was significantly impacted from WT and the gameplay is sophisticated from it.”
And wait… didnt you try to sell the system as realistic? Huh…

@SilentHaven

Don’t expect the game to drastically change just because you thought it should be something different.

Yeah… how unfair is it that people demand the game to be more in line with what the devs (used to) actually advertise while also charging AAA prices for bunch of premium squads. How dare they?

@SilentHaven

Feel free to make complaints about flaws or balance issues, but don’t go demanding it be remade into an entirely different game.

And what else höhö?
Its also nice that apparently demanding the models to be not bugged is “game-changing” all of the sudden. Are non-broken bipods and working GPMGS also game-changing?
Pls tell us what is fine for you.

@SilentHaven

Enlisted is not War Thunder. It was never meant to be War Thunder

Nah, its just keeps mentioning WT in the ads, has many similarities with it and soon even has same MM mechanics… but it aint WT.

@SilentHaven

it can’t function the same way with the addition of infantry.

Or maybe because we have playable maps sized of CoD which suck… maybe…

[SilentHaven]

…

I do not know how to reason with you from here.

You seriously expect them to to rebuild the whole game from the ground up to better fit in line what you thought it should be.

You have no concept of how impossible that would be. It would be starting the whole thing from scratch with only the models remaining. A whole different game.

Look, I already said it before. If the game is not what you thought it was supposed to be. Go play CoD or some other yearly produced shooter.

@CaptainSebekel

Its also nice that apparently demanding the models to be not bugged is “game-changing” all of the sudden. Are non-broken bipods and working GPMGS also game-changing?
Pls tell us what is fine for you.

nose pinch fixing bugs and issues is not the same thing as asking the game to function like a completely different game…

Its like saying “Smash Brothers needs to be like Mario cart! Its literally unplayable without the carts! They made mario cart! I thought they’d have carts in it! There was one in the ad! Why can’t they fight AND Race! I want both! Make the stages bigger so they can be race tracks!”

That is basically the same logic you are going with.

You can’t just copy mechanic from one game and expect it to work in something completely different. Even if they look similar.

This conversation is no longer productive. So I won’t be contributing any further.

[DieJagdente]

Thats what youtube videos are for and the Test battle area. Enlisted values are different from War Thunder for balancing reasons. Same value as in WT didnt work out in the closed Beta. Made the tanks far too powerfull.

[CaptainSebekel]

And the current situation is better?

[GeneralBrus]

@DieJagdente

Same value as in WT didnt work out in the closed Beta. Made the tanks far too powerfull.

what are you talking about? tank to tank combat cant be too powerful or too weak because if it works as it did in the beta or as it does right now, it doesn’t influence tanks “power” in supporting the team.

The only things that did change which made tanks “more powerful” was more damage per shot coax MGs, and massively overpowered HE vs infantry.

Almost no one is complaining about that, we are talking about satisfying -skill based not RNG based -realistic gameplay.

There is zero reason not to mimic real tank vs tank values in enlisted.
The argument that “tank balance doesn’t work in enlisted because tanks are fighting in close combat, making many tanks more lethal in their anti tank capabilities” -makes no sense, because having a Sherman tank that can actually deal with Panthers because of the Panthers turret shot trap will result in better gameplay AND more realism. Not the better vehicle decides who wins, but who actually shot first.

[GeneralBrus]

Also, Warthunder has also more than enough “close combat” tank fights, and there is no problem in the game with that at all.

[CaptainSebekel]

I also dont know how buggy armor makes tanks less OP against inf.
I mean, the overheat for MG, HE nerf and maybe even the speed nerf make sense but isnt overall buggy unreliable armor worse for inf as well since… they need to pen a tank to fight it?

[Dregomz]

Well according to this Enlisted Tool all tanks have much less pen that they had in War Thunder which would mean that slopped armor is even more powerful than they should be

[Z0mb13S0ldier]

I don’t know about you, but I definitely enjoy the Chi-Ha being almost completely impervious to any and all Marine tanks currently available.