It is more realistic than the FPS’s that I’ve played like COD or Battlefield. I can’t speak to the “realism” of post scriptum or hell let loose, they seem like good games, but I’ve never been able to get into them because, quite frankly, I just suck at them, so I can’t really make comparisons. Personally, I like Enlisted just because it’s a game LIKE that that I’m actually pretty good at. I could see an argument being made for realism in those games, because it’s essentially squads but with real people, which if the players know what they’re doing, is inherently an improvement. Furthermore, those games have had a lot more development time over Enlisted, it’s not exactly a fair comparison, there’s already a lot of improvements lined up for Enlisted.
I don’t think Enlisted is as unrealistic as you make it out to be. I put way closer to post scriptum or hell let loose than I do battlefield or COD. To that end, they should strive for greater realism, not less. A lot of their fanbase comes from War Thunder, a game many fans ALSO wish was more realistic and less arcade.
I’m not angry. I dunno what tone of voice you chose to read that in, but I’ll try to reiterate in a way that suites you… “Get better at the, quite frankly, more than reasonable game mechanics Enlsited has given you to work with…” Dumbledore said ¸,ø¤º°°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°🎀𝒸𝒶𝓁𝓂𝓁𝓎🎀°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°°º¤ø,¸
Furthermore, I get that you are voicing your opinion. I’m voicing my opinion that yours is a bit deluded, and then backing it up with examples. You’re saying this game doesn’t have any gameplay loop once you start running out of health or ammo, and then suggesting one to fill in that hole. It is however a strawman, there is no hole to fill. I don’t think you really fully understand what a gameplay loop is, there are plenty of “gameplay loops” once you get down to that point in enlisted, but none of them CODDLE YOU like more arcadey style modern FPS games. Ammo and health shortage is SUPPOSED to be a challenge for this game.
I don’t want to be gate keepy, but honestly man, if you’re not playing squads, then why are you playing Enlisted? I’ve tried out the lone wolf mode, it’s not bad, I’ve had fun… But it doesn’t exactly innovate on the genre. If lone wolf were all this game was, I would probably not even play it, as post scriptum, hell let loose, and (hork) battlefield V are all takes on that same concept I would probably consider to be better in a lot of ways, if only because they’re more streamlined. If any of those things are closer to what you want than Enlisted… Then go play those, because the gameplay recommendations you’re making make it sound like this just straight up isn’t the game for you. And that’s ok man, if you don’t like how it is, you don’t have to play it. I think most people here at least like the overall concept they’ve gone for, and have more specific criticisms than yours, which essentially boil down to “change the entire game to be more like the first person shooter that I want based on my minimal knowledge of how ‘gameplay loops’ work”.
Squads gamemode is effectively a hybrid FPS multiplayer game and single player campaign with NPCs, and then sprinkles in a little bit of strategy game style gameplay by giving you command OF some of those NPCs to help you in your goals. Squads is not JUST an FPS game, and that’s why players are drawn to Enlisted over alternatives. If anything, it almost caters more to war thunder players, strategy game players, RTS players, etc, more so than it caters to FPS players. It’s like an FPS built for non FPS players in that sense. If you aren’t playing it, well, sorry man, but in lone wolf mode, you’ve basically elected to play a watered down less well developed post scriptum/hell let loose. I’m glad they’ve added a lone wolf mode to give players like you something to do, to introduce you to the game, and as an alternative once playing a ton of squads gets a little boring… But it’s just not where the cool stuff is happening. I’ll circle back to this though, because I think the game is fine even in lone wolf mode.
“That being said, the bots at the current moment are really kinda terrible and get themselves killed extremely quickly, thereby also nullifying your critique.”
Yes, the bots currently are terrible. No that doesn’t invalidate my argument. I don’t know why you think it does. For one thing, they’re bad, but they’re not as bad as some actual players I’ve seen in this game… Holy crap there’s some really bad players in this game. At least the bots are consistently bad, which means you can find ways to manage them. However, as I discovered recently, just any rando player can hop in your Stuart now, steal your driver seat, drive right up to and face hug a Puma, cost you, him, and your team a perfectly good tank… Wow that’s bad. You think the AI is bad? I’d rather boss these AI around than try to work with a chuckle#$% like that.
As for how this relates to squad AI, I’ve also seen the same 2 or 3 players spawn, and then lead their AI squads RUNNING across an open field with me just… Hosing them with my tank’s machine gun. Entire squads. I ended that game with about 100 kills, not because I was good, but because whatever player was leading those squads was happily LEADING his AI entourage to their deaths over and over and over again with no change in behavior or tactics… For 20 minutes straight. So much of their behavior seemed to be dictated by muscle memory from other FPS games, and that just doesn’t work here. You cannot blame that on a dumb AI. Yes, a better AI might’ve made better decisions than to follow an idiotic real player to the same death over and over and over again… But that situation just wasn’t an AI problem. That was a player skill problem, and quite frankly, I think that’s the problem you’re having, if you’d quit whining about battlefield style ammo and health drops, and actually listen to some advice on how you can play the game better.
I think one of the reasons why I like Enlisted is because I would rather get mad at a consistently bad, but manageable AI, then lose my s!#@ over actual SMOOTH BRAINS like that tank hijacker. And since games are a solid 80% or more AI, it reduces interactions like that.
For another, they’re equally bad for the enemy team as they are for you. You HAVE NO DISADVANTAGE OR ADVANTAGE in AI behavior. If an enemy squad has kept his squad alive and picked off yours, sorry bud, but he’s just a better player than you. He’s taken the time to learn the advantages and weaknesses of his AI squadmates, and knows how to work around the jank AI to keep them alive better than you. His AIs are NO BETTER than yours, at least in terms of behavior, so I don’t know where you get off saying the AIs are a problem that costs you games. EVERYONE gets the same AI behavior, so if you’re losing to AI squads that work their way to outnumbering you, then YOU are the problem. YOU are getting your squad killed, and THEY are keeping theirs alive. And if you’d stop whining about not having infinite health and ammo, and listened to the people in this forums, ya might learn a few things about how Squad mode works, you might actually try it out using your newfound tips and tricks, and you might actually like it, and leave the discount post scriptum mode. It’s not our problem that you’ve refused to try the one game mode that actually tries anything new with the genre just because the AIs need improvements.
And they will get better with time, Gaijin already has an update in the works to improve their pathfinding, and start adding a more useful ordering system that allows you to order defensive or aggressive behavior. This will vastly improve the gameplay. Now my AI will stop picking fights through bunker windows waiting to get sniped, rather than hunkering down like I want them to. Now they might actually keep running when I attack a position, instead of try to take potshots along the way. To this end, even when the AI does get better… Your ability to lead them will still matter. If you’re STILL trying to play squads like a battlefield clone, never giving your squad any useful orders, they WILL get killed, no matter how good the AI is. YOU need to take an active involvement in leading them.
Furthermore, even without those improvements, there is still player skill in the AI, even how it is currently… You’ve refused to learn that skill because you’ve written them off as too jank to be useful… Dude… Just press X. Take the lead, clear the area because you will be a better shot then they are, press X inside a safe building or control point for them to hold, then press even further ahead while they hold that position. You will PERSONALLY be more likely to die than them, while they hang back. At that point, they are effectively your short notice, on the point respawns. They defend the cap point while you go seek out combat and try to head it off, and when you die, they should still be there, unless they got overran hard and you werent paying attention. My biggest squad currently is an assault squad… That is 7 people. 4 of them MP-34 assaulters with longer range KAR-98s as secondary weapons in case I need to snipe, 1 engineer able to build ammo, sandbags- HOLY S!@#, you were just complaining about teammates not putting down ammo crates for you, BRO, in squads, check this s@$* out, in squads, you can just… build your own damn ammo crates. All you gotta do is attach an engineer to your squad. Then you can swap right back to the class you wanna play and fill up. OH, AND they can build rally points, so if you find a spot you wanna respawn at to get into the action faster, you can do that. Anyway, continuing on, I also got 1 radio man to call in artillery every 4 minutes, and I have 1 trooper, who will soon be replaced with a machine gunner. That gunner will be able to lay down covering fire while my assaulters move up on a building, and then set up an MG nest once that building is taken. Also, like I said, you can use your squad as bait. If they’re pissing you off, ok, spawn a sniper squad, go order your squad to hold a point, and wait in a bush behind them. They’ll get shot at first, and you can pick off whomever was dumb enough to give their position away against lowly AIs. Oh, a tank rolls up? Give all your squad mates det packs. Now, instead of only having 1 at your disposal like lone wolf mode, wow, I can have 7 in this squad… I can and have chucked 7 det packs at one tank within about 10 seconds, even the nippiest little stuart is unlikely to get away from that, and may god have mercy on the soul of anybody within the same postcode of that tank… If you play defensively, order your squad to hunker down on or near a control point, and then go scout ahead, you can keep your squad alive for quite some time. Practice this, and maybe you won’t have your entire squad dead before you get a chance to comandeer other squad members when you die.
First off… Sh@# happens man, just as you can get caught out, so too can your entire squad. But even then, you have gameplay options for keeping your squad alive, options your enemy is using, and that you haven’t used because you continually BLAME THE AI instead of LEARNING HOW TO KEEP THEM ALIVE.
I’ve actually had games where I pretty much went the entire game on just one squad. So while they are dumb, it’s not impossible to keep them alive. For one thing, squad AIs are freaking idiots who don’t take cover on their own. If an MG or sniper sees your squad, it is up to YOU to lead or order them, I dunno, say, into a trench or behind a building. Or, it is up to YOU to go prone in tall grass. They don’t even really go prone on their own unless you are. Your actions MATTER in how fast your squad gets killed. USE X TO ORDER THEM AROUND. I get the impression you just go running around and let them follow you, expecting them to just do some heavy lifting without any guidance… They ARE too stupid for that man, that’s why YOU, THE PLAYER, need to be the BRAINs of the operation.
Put simply dude, the amount of strategic options with a squad of AIs puts to shame anything you’re doing in lone wolf mode, DESPITE how janky the AI currently is. So no, a janky AI doesn’t invalidate anything. This game was built around them, and you have elected to play a game mode that doesn’t use them. You have invalidated YOUR criticisms by playing a game mode that, sorry man, is kind of an afterthought to satisfy staunch traditional FPS players who just… don’t get it. Who don’t get what’s different and that they should change their playstyle. And sorry, but I don’t expect it to satisfy people like you for long. If it doesn’t satisfy you, then I guess this game aint for you. But don’t come up in here demanding the entire game be changed when you don’t even play the same game mode most of us actually like playing.
Yeah… And? Sometimes youre the one with the advantage, sometimes attrition has made you disadvantaged. So what. Do you need equity? Do you need communism? Do you need your enemy player to come out and duel you mano e mano while whats left of your smoldering wreck of a squad tries to patch themselves up, and his chad unit cheers him on? Is that what you need? Why do you keep bringing up other FPS’s like Battlefield like they don’t have this? How is this any different than rounding a corner in BF1 and coming face to face with a juggernaut? Like, s#$% happens man, asymmetric warfare is a thing. If you’re not a s@#$ player, you can deal with it. The only difference with enlisted is that now you keep getting your dumb bots killed, and instead of a juggernaut, it’s a regular dude and his idiotic clones. Ok man… Deal with it? Think outside the box? Have you tried this:
˜”°•.˜”°• activate neuron •°”˜.•°”˜
First off, it is up to you to keep your squad alive for as long as possible before even getting to that moment, to ensure that HE is the poor dumb b@st@rd to die for his country at a material disadvantage, and not you. Second of all, WTF are you complaining about? He is ONE good player, and a bunch of bots with lackluster aim, target priority, reaction time, and dodging skills. I have OFTEN single handedly killed 3 or 4 squad members, or even obliterate an entire squad, using just ONE of my squad members with a bolt action rifle after having to react on short notice. Aim for the chest, fire, next target, aim for the chest, fire, next target. If you’re not a s!@# player, you can absolutely take out a much larger squad, EVEN CAUGHT OUT. I’ve gotten even better results as a lone gunman in places I can effectively use cover, or set up choke points. It is absolutely doable for you to clean house on an enemy squad as a lone guy. You just WONT pull it off every time, but personally, I manage to best greater odds often enough that I don’t feel there’s anything unfair going on, just a battle of wits and player skill. Even when I die in these situations, I usually take half a squad with me.
And in fact, I’m gonna give you a god tier tip that your enemies are probably using against you, TO GET more resources and men OVER your squad before that engagement begins, and during that engagement. You ready?.. SWITCH… SQUAD… MEMBERS… Consider the following:
What really matters here in a squad vs squad engagement is how good you or they are at… SWITCHING… SQUAD… MEMBERS. You are an infinitely better shot than your bots… Or at least, my god, I hope you are. He is an infinitely better shot than his bots. You must down his squad as fast as possible before he has time to swap out of a reviving squadie into a still combat effective one. And, if you get downed, I HIGHLY recommend you drop that lone wolf bulls!@#, and immediately press Y to swap to your next best squadie. The bot will heal himself assuming he doesn’t get double tapped. Don’t waste 10 seconds healing only to get double tapped after your entire squad is killed. Instead, immediately swap to your next best squadie, and lay down counter fire on whomever just downed your man. This is KEY to keeping your squad alive. I often will rack up 6-12 kills on one dude, while the bots suck so bad they manage 1-3 each at best. That should give you some idea of your own combat effectiveness over bots. You need to take ACTIVE control over the best one for any given moment, espescially if you are taking fire, or get caught out. Even when not caught out, sometimes you’ll get squad members who are simply in better positions or condition than you. Switch to them, and fire back asap. Hell, even running out of ammo, consider switching instead of waiting on a reload. The real crackhead pro players in this game are doing stuff like this, because they know it’ll allow them to lay a lot more effective fire down on you in a shorter time then you can on them, if all you’re doing is getting downed, and then sitting there trying to heal like you’re playing battlefield.
… Oh, btw, you do get your squads back… By f@#$ing respawning squads… Just like respawning as a player in ANY OTHER GAME. I don’t know where you get off saying this game doesn’t have gameplay loops here, yes, your squad dies, and? Respawn when you’re out of guys. It’s a game of attrition, if you’ve taken out 2 enemy squads for the inevitable price of your own, then congrats, you’re doing well, even if it feels s!@#ty to watch your entourage die around you as you work your way down to the last round on low health. And there is no penalty to respawning, YOU LITERALLY HAVE INFINITE RESPAWNS. (unless you’re on invasion, then getting your squad killed without taking an objective for it matters a lot to the outcome of the game).
“If I have to die in order to level the playing field in a casual multiplayer shooter, and it’s not a seemingly intentional mechanic, it kinda sucks.”
… To reiterate… you don’t. I once killed 4 more guys with a walther PP and a knife within about 60 seconds after abandoning a tank that ran out of ammo as the last man left in a tank squad… And that was after murdering like 100 allies running up the hill on normandy, so ya know what, I didn’t exactly mind giving the enemy a chance to FINALLY off me while I go full stabby stabby on them. That’s 4 more kills I wouldn’t have gotten if I just pressed the suicide button like a coward as I’m sure some players do. Suiciding everytime you are at a disadvantage prevents you from EVER learning how to get off your high horse and fight in the mud. Hell, that’s probably 50 plus more kills I’d have missed out on if I’d just suicided when I got down to just 1 tanker left.
And ya know what, believe it or not, it IS an intentional gameplay mechanic. I got most of those kills bumming around in a Puma with just 1 tanker left, so this idea that you’re useless if you’re not full strength is dumb. YOU are not conserving your resources or adapting to worsening situations with that big ol brain of yours. That is the problem, not the game. This game simulates the nature of attrition very well, and it is up to you to figure out how to make the most of a worsening resource situation… Much like in, ya know… Real WW2… For a guy who complains about this game not being realistic, you sure do seem to be spending a lot of time complaining about probably the MOST realistic elements of this game
I dunno if you know this, but at least you have the advantage of going into combat in this game with full strength and fully equipped units. IRL, most units were not full strength or fully quipped when deployed. German units in particular were rarely full strength again after the war kicked off, and many of them dropped down to half or even quarter strength when deployed by the end of the war. By the end of the war, Germany was forming emergency units out of old men and young boys called Volkssturm because they’d straight up gotten most of their 20 something year olds killed through unsustainable attrition across 5-6 years of combat. Wanna know what they were equipped with? Spin the f#$%ing wheel dude, they were given whatever ancient junk was still mothballed somewhere, they were given rip offs of the sten gun, they were given bare bones Kar98s made out of plywood, they were given vehicles and weapons literally yanked out of museums and pressed into service, they often weren’t even trained on guns or equipment, they were expected to learn their weapon through combat, and they were given about enough ammo to last them through their short life expectancy, IF THAT. It was common for both the allies and the germans to replace their destroyed vehicles with ones “acquired” from the enemy in the field. I know of one unit that moved troops with stolen german trucks, and apparently the germans were quite fond of stolen sherman tanks.
Like… Dude… I dunno where you get off complaining the game is somehow unfair to you, when both you and the enemy team spawn with full strength units, similar weapons, similar ammo, similar loadouts, similar numbers of people all of which, YES, gets lost through attrition as the game wears on… And then in the other hand, call this game unrealistic. You know what man, yeah, it’s unrealistic. Wanna talk unfair odds? Because some units in WW2, you were lucky if you were given a rock to throw. Wanna talk about one sided engagements? How about a handful of Volkssturm with a plywood Kar98, a knock off sten, and a single panzerfaust between the 3 of them, that may or may not work, and no training on how to use any of it, rounding a corner to find their town is suddenly being assaulted by an entire airborne unit and a handful of shermans. CONSIDERING that’s what ACTUAL WW2 was like, I think what Enlisted gives you is more than fair, and yet you still have the gall to complain about not having infinite health regeneration, infinite ammo pools, troop reinforcements for the squad you led into an MG and didn’t give proper orders to… No man, you’re the only one here who thinks the game is that unfair. Truth is, you’ve been coddled by certain other shooters, and don’t know how to handle managing resources with a limited supply. And rather than learn the f@#$ing game, here you are to demand the game be changed to have the same, quite frankly, s!@# mechanics that other FPS’s use. It’s DUMB that you can heal to full health in battlefield in a short amount of time. It’s DUMB dude. How can you call this game unrealistic and then ask for BS like that?
Running out of ammo, running out of medical supplies, running out of straight up PEOPLE is INTENDED gameplay. You only find that an alien concept because so many shooters have taken to making those things available in ridiculous amounts. I dunno how old you are, but believe it or not man, that’s not how shooters used to be. I grew up with Halo CE. You spawned with an assault rifle and a pistol, and that’s it. If you wanted a better gun, you had to go find it, and ya know what, some AHole probably got to the sniper rifle before you and just used it to headshot you from across the map. Only your shield regenerates, and that’s only acceptable because it’s explained away by sci fi lore. Under that, you HAVE actual health you gotta manage, and you know what man, it ain’t battlefield, it aint coming back on its own, and unless you can find a medpack on the map randomly somewhere, I guess you’re just SOL until you get killed and respawn. And Halo was a relatively easy game to manage that stuff with, because at least guns were littered everywhere in your average slayer game. I know of other games that came before it were far FAR more brutal when it came to managing your health and ammo.
So even in Lone Wolf mode, this idea of I am spawning with limited health, only one health pack, and limited ammo… It doesn’t BOTHER ME man. It doesn’t BOTHER a lot of players because not everyone is scared of a simple challenge like managing a nonrenewable resource. If anything, it feels like a return to some oldschool FPS mechanics, and as such, a breath of fresh air. If you live long enough to get 5 kills and the only thing that stops you is running out of ammo, you’re doing good, and ya know what, the enemy team could probably use a break from your rampage via a realistic limit. And at that point, shocker, you still have a knife, maybe a sidearm or a secondary weapon if you unlocked it, most maps have MG emplacements, and it is STUPID easy to loot dead bodies in this game for gun. Literally it’s a smorgasbord, hell, you can find guns that are probably better than the one you spawned with. I’ve seen so many german troopers on my team loot allied bodies for sniper rifles, and straight up abandon whatever gun they already had. Like they took time to pick up a half empty rifle just because it was that much better. WTF do you mean there’s no gameplay loops for when you run out of ammo, THIS HAS BEEN THE GAMEPLAY LOOP FOR OVER A DECADE BEFORE MODERN SHOOTERS.
Listening to you talk about it, it’s like watching someone’s brain short circuit because they’ve been presented with limited health an ammo in a game for the first time in their entire life. Like it’s inconCIEVABLE to you that the game is even playable once you start running out of resources.
… then… go… play… those…
Clearly you want a BF or PS clone… Why not just play those man.
This is the only part of your comment I agree with- oh wait, nvm, I thought you were referring to yourself.
… I mean that, you don’t think about this game. Like, you aren’t thinking when you play it, you’re just trying to rely on autopilot skills from other FPS games, and that straight up doesn’t work. “Oh wow, I’m running low on ammo, guess I’ll go complain on the forums”… I dunno man, have you TRIED looting a body? Have you TRIED sneaking into a capture point, taking it, then going full stabby stabby on the first 4 guys to walk through the bunker door? Like, you literally put zero thought into this challenge the game has PRESENTED TO YOU because you don’t even register it as intended gameplay, instead it only registers as a bug of some kind, because every FPS has infinitely regenerating health and lots of ammo spawns… right?.. RIGHT? That’s just standard now, RIGHT? I dunno man, if you get shot in real life, do you think a first aid kit is going to make you young again? Or does the wound magically heal like Wolverine?.. And this game is unrealistic? What makes battlefield more realistic in your eyes than Enlisted, please, enlighten me, because so far, you’ve only highlighted things that MAKE Enlisted a more realistic game, as the “Unintended Gameplay”.
