yeah I’m all for having a noob safe place
and even an infantry only mode + rifle only mode
but losing what made enlisted Enlisted, seems too high a price for me personally for the sake of something that could have been made optional side modes
I even really like the idea of historical scenarios, that would be cool
Not with the current way DF measures br consider the closeness of short barlel Pazer IV to T-50s and T-34s.
sometimes i am feeling that i am talking to a wall. new MM will not fix problem when there are even 10v10 matches. it will fix the other problem where there are 30% of bots.
also have you ever wondered why people quit those “balanced” 10v10 matches? simply tell me the reasons why people quit them? and then ask yourself how to fix those problems?
you are constantly blaming deserters for “bad games” when the reason for desertion is in other things. devs are currently fixing one thing to combat desertions and increase player retention, but you dont like it cause you were seal clubbed and you must now have privilege to seal club others with end game weapons.
also devs have hinted that they are discussing introducing punishment for desertion, but this is bad idea when underlying reasons for desertion arent fixed first.
i said it will affect post merge situation.
normandy (like all campaigns) is skewered with veterans on one side and newbies on other. last year we had all german mains on normandy with newbies on allies. now german mains are mostly grinding berlin before merge and ally veterans are using the chance to grind US end game equipment before merge.
refer to first paragraph for answer to your question
here are the experiences of some forum players, including you. negative bots entering match value represents more than 20 human players per match. players that quit were in some part replaced by other human players.
btw one interesting thing that i noticed… your matches have highest desertion %. think that players just dont want to play with you 
A british soldier who drafted in 1939 didnt see any tiger until 1943. Jimmy should count himself lucky to see one within few weeks
Already stacked tons of bolties to farm newbies. So yes i agree 
This is what I usually see CURRENTLY though. Many players just run right down the middle expecting to lose their squad to strong tanks and such. Rather than learning how to counter or flank. No emphasis has been put on using smoke or cover, or about half the options in the game. They have just accepted at this point they are going to get killed running down the middle but don’t try to avoid it.
This is of course still technically possible, and I don’t think the code changes will be much, considering they’ve already done 80% of the respawn score mechanic.
Possibly even simpler than the BR, maybe just drop BR and fine-tune their code for Spawn Score Mech
The only problem is that they’ve already spent so much time on BR that it’s emotionally impossible for them to give up that part of the job.
But I’m still not bullish on the BR game.
And I want them to do the rest of the respawn score mech for custom battles.
spawnCostPerSpawnPersonalScore for mech game, It still working and sits quietly in the code, waiting to be completed.
I can’t accept that they don’t complete the last step in many things, even if they are very close to success.
Right now it works very imperfectly and still needs to be perfected.
Embrace the grind.
Nah Jimmy should be grateful that he doesn’t eat a M8 or HVAR rocket every time he spawn
I feel the exact same way, we have so much in common
30% of bots is not a problem
in fact I prefer matches with 7 vs 7 as already mentioned, and also already covered that some the best matches in this game are because there are less players in the match overall, so I have accepted desertion as helpful thing for better matches
Secondly to this point, also already covered, but has to be repeated…the quitters are what are reducing the numbers in the popular campaigns that normally start with full teams and only stop being full teams because of quitters
Might open up a new thread to discuss that, since that is an entire other subject that needs in depth coverage and it is interesting to me
I have already proven to you multiple times that maps alone aren’t always the majority reason of quits, they can and are the minority often times as I notice they quit often after losing several squads and clearly not enjoying the experience
and yes I agree that is a reason as is roflstomp, but those are not the only reasons, don’t know why you would be ignorant of the rest, but whatever, that’s your choice
Because it’s true, I don’t make this up for no reason, it’s the most common factor
You make it sound like its’ only about seal clubbing, it’s not.
I have also clarified this that it’s part of the accomplishment in this game to reach the pinnacle and then get to enjoy it and be more competitive against other players that have end game gear, not just seal clubbing…your focus on only this shows you don’t understand
sacrificing some players to please players you currently don’t have is only helping reduce the players, not to increase them, guess it’s just more wishful thinking
I agree that’s a bad idea whilst the game hasn’t addressed the reasons why people quit
and let’s get to the center of that discussion, they cannot address all the reasons because many of the reasons are caused by the structure of the game itself, that will never change, and they can never actually fix player balance, it’s actually impossible. So I have realized that player quitting is actually essential since there is no other way around it other than enduring.
So player retention only works when you have the players, introducing something that will push more players away at this point with the hope to replace them with future new players is not a wise choice, given that these remaining players are the ones that kept the game going this long
BR going to push a lot of people away, and I don’t know if they will get those back by replacing them with players that like this BR nonsense, but hey, I won’t be around to care anymore, so whatever
makes no difference post merge pre merge, except there will just be more new reasons to quit matches thanks to BR, three cheers for BR
Wishful thinking it is then
I’m ok with that, I don’t want to play with them either, bunch of babies 
At this point I want to experience maximum desertion consistently, I want to make everyone desert my matches, and play with just bots. I want everyone to see my name and just leave
I’m actually proud of that, quite the achievement
thanks for actually putting that together, really does reflect my experience is completely different from the avg stats and I wasn’t just imagining it
What is happening with the guy that has so many bots in his match? Is that custom or some campaign off peak that nobody plays?
I am actually really surprised that despite having the highest quits in my matches in that sample that I also have the least bots in my matches, that was truly surprising
so that means all the quitters are being replaced by players that play like bots
or maybe something going on with these stats, something feels off from the stats and what it feels in the battles
people have different experience depending on time, server and campaigns they are playing on. you are on one end of the spectrum cause you are playing most played campaign in the game in peak hours for your server. that means that MM has lots of players and can even replace those players when they quit. so even though you have average 4.83 players quit in your games, you only end up with average 3.39 bots at the end of the game. and out of those who quit at the start you get average 1.44 new players joining existing battle.
stats show that you get at least ~1.5 players quitting per match cause of bad mode/map cause they get replaced right at the start. this number is probably even higher cause not every match you will get replacement.
if you look at global stats for normandy crossplay on in my thread, you will notice same behavior for assault, conquest, demolition and confrontation.
this is perfect example of why map/mode selection is needed. and like i explained hard map selection is impossible to implement if you dont want to make this game PvE.
so only other solutions are:
i think that option 2 is superior option cause it will give wider pool of maps and it will not lock map pool to only few favorite maps.
yes it is a problem. in most campaigns you dont get 7v7, but you get 10v4. it is cause most campaigns have playerbase disparity. normandy is one of the rare campaigns that have around same number of both allies and axis atm. almost any other campaign has 10-100% playerbase disparity between sides.
you have not proven that. if anything proof is actually in your stats. at least one third of deserters in your matches can be directly tied to map selection cause they are being replaced with another human. this is impossible to do if match lasts longer then few minutes (i am actually really interested what is the limit). IIRC you even provided screenshots where people quit either pre match or few seconds after match started.
and yes people also quit cause of bad teams. i quit cause:
tell me those reasons and solutions on how to fix them then? one of the reasons is IRL commitments and you cant do shit about that. other reason is fun factor and BR system will actually improve that cause you will not have so many sweaty meta matches against veterans. other reason is seal clubbers searching for an easy match and i really dont care about that population.
and you can be competitive with other players at the same level. i have played numerous games and i didnt see any game that allowed end game equipment be used against newbies with starter equipment (well except p2w games, but i avoid them). that includes MMORPG, FPS, RTS, TBS and games like WT, WoT, WoWs.
when i “reached pinnacle” in WoWs with various ships like yamato, montana, des moines, zao, minotaur etc., for me it was enjoyment to play against other similarly equipped players. if i was playing games against t1 newbies game would be really boring and newbies would quit the game cause i could one shot them and they would need half an hour of constant fire to kill me.
so KT vs t60 is not “reaching the pinnacle”. it is just pure seal clubbing. same with 3 squads full of fedorovs vs newbie with kar98k.
look at this
new players are staying behind and sniping cause they dont have enough firepower against veterans to fight for cap. and you can only win if every player fights for cap and not by sniping players that have infinite amount of lives.
game already sacrificed lots of player by not making those changes. do you even know how many CBT players are left? look at forum 2 years ago, look at forum 1 year ago and see how many players are still playing the game. even some frequent posters on the forum only play few games in 2 weeks.
there are lots of stuff that can be fixed in the game itself that will reduce desertion and BR MM is one of them.
human player balance will be fixed with new MM so there will not be 10v4 matches anymore. that is why i said that global distribution of players is important. now per campaign basis we have normandy that is balanced and other campaigns that have 10-100% difference in players per side.
will that mean skill balance? no and this game never needs to have that mechanism.
will it prevent desertion? no, but at least it will mitigate it to a degree by removing lots of bots and veterans from MM.
do you know what minority are the players who hate this change and could possibly quit? out of 300k players that i have taken data from, less than 100 players actually came to forum to express dissatisfaction with the merge and BR MM.
think he is australian so he plays in off peak hours on some server. also i didnt include any of the crossplay off data and situation there is much worse.
it’s only a problem not because of the 30% bots
but because of the disparity as you rightfully point out where matches don’t evenly do 7 vs 7, but rather 7 vs 10 for example or worse as we see after quitters 10 vs 4
yes that is why I have preferred the Normandy Campaign in recent times, in addition to working on the Campaign progress to finish the campaign and enjoy this game before this BR update kills the game for me
This is where I am telling you there is something not right with those stats
I see so many matches where the majority of quitters have lost like 4+squads, and showed you some examples in screenshots, in one case only 2 quit at the beginning and the other 6 left after losing several squads, some lost like 10 squads and then left.
That is definitely not leaving at the start of the match, you can’t lose 4-10 squads without playing the game for a while can you?
Will add those other reasons you mentioned to the other thread thanks forgot those
I agree that it’s tough facing end game stuff in certain situations and I too dread when a team full of end game gear is facing off against me and my team is clearly just bunch of rifle noobies and bots and the good players quit, but there are also matches and campaigns where the other team might have one or two guys with end game gear and I have only rifles, and then when I pick up their weapons or weapons of our top end guys, it feels great to then have that potential rush and enjoyment, there is nothing quite like it. Admitedly we can’t steal tanks, which sucks, and we certainly can’t get their planes, but that is another discussion
anyway, I rather the chance at having those cool matches than not having that chance at all, besides we already have to quit for so many reasons that cannot be fixed, so I rather have one the cool aspects of this game remain than have it be destroyed forever, and that includes the campaigns being destroyed
so whilst I understand the complaint about uneven teams, I still rather have it available if it means I can still start a new campaign and enjoy potentially picking up end game gear off the ground as a new player in that campaign or faction
the game going to have fewer players still after this BR system is implemented, because chances are I won’t remain around after this, I might be just one guy, but who knows how many more will this negatively impact
See this is what I mean, you don’t seem to understand, Normandy is not balanced, sure you have the numbers and stats look good, but majority of matches are still uneven affair and quitting is at the heart of it
Well good luck with that then, but most people hate online forums because of the rampant corruption and abuses and it being a head ache, so relying on that for anything is pointless, also there is no way that you have 300k active players right now, so that’s a load of BS
I reckon some these stats where you are reading as players are bots, they literally play like bots
so you can say that 6 of of 12 deserters quit prematch.
these ones quit after 1 round
they may also have problem with map/mode. unless it was roflstomp where you lost your cap in 30 seconds, there is no reason to quit.
these quit after 2 deaths
they may be in stack with nr. 10, or they dont like the map, or they dont like that your team already has many deserters. hard to tell past 2 deaths.
that accounts for 10 deserters. last 2 are:
idk what they were doing. sometimes players are worse than bots.
this one quit at the end of the match and should not be counted as deserter. still sucks, but not deserter.
you have at least 6 people leaving at start without doing anything in last screenshot. and further 2 that quit after losing 1 squad. so at least 8 people quit prematch or at pure start of the match, with another 2 with questionable reasons that had 2 deaths.
only 2 of those players could be really called quitters cause they lost multiple squads.
i agree that it is not balanced. there are many things that affect balance. like number of console player per match, number of veterans per match, number of deserters. but balance changes must start from somewhere.
you may be referring to reddit? but if i invested hundreds if not thousands of hours in the game and paid lots of money for premium stuff and didnt like the way this game was going, i would go to forum and express my dissatisfaction with at least a post. one post that showed dissatisfaction got ~80 likes and there were few new posters on forum.
i would not call them all active.
basically you have ~76k players that only played 1 match in 8 days and ~131k that plays less than 1 match daily.
you have ~95k players who play at least 1 match daily. but you must remember that playerbase is split between crossplay on and crossplay off and there is no intersection between them. also they are subdivided in 3 regions/servers with further division to 6 campaigns and further divided by hours in the day.
btw 30% of bots refers only to bots entering the match for crossplay on that is more populated. with desertion that number is ~40% total. for crossplay off those numbers are much worse. you forget that averages also take into account off peak hours so players can have battles with 90% bots. it would be more correct to do analysis per region/server and hour, but i cant isolate players per region/server, so data would always be polluted with off peak hours of some server.
the screen you are dissecting was to show the total number of quitters in a match at the high end of total quitters
but I have screens like this of also a lot of quitters where majority didn’t leave at the start
this is what I am saying
you can’t justify it all with one blanket statement and think that covers all situations, I see this screen happen very commonly also
how would you dissect this screen? would you say they all left at the start of the match because they didn’t like the map?
Agree.
But consider the amount of work they have put in, they might keep the BR.
But for me, the BR itself is sure to fail. Maybe BR fighting will be sidelined one day, if Enlisted survives. That means they’ve done another big, time-wasting job.
Because BR matches go against the intent of making the game diverse and balanced. First of all, BR does not solve the balance problem, players just look for new imbalances in the new BR. Secondly, BR will not diversify the game.
BR does not solve the most fundamental problem of this game.
Why are many many players not staying in this F2P game? They chose to leave.
Merging campaign tech trees and BR is their attempt to answer this question. The tech tree itself is good, but BR, I totally doubt it.
Enlisted has a lot of history and potentially interesting potential, but the game itself isn’t fun. The lack of strategic choices and sustainable fun is the main problem for most players who want gameplay, and BR doesn’t solve this problem. I have seen many these players claim that this game has RTS elements, but it never has, or is extremely lacking
For other players, Enlisted as a pure PvE battle may have advantages in some aspects. Some players are attracted because of some running, jumping and shooting PvE elements of this game. But I don’t think BR by itself adds to these advantages.
I tried to think about it from every angle, and BR would ultimately fail.
I believe this number.
But many of these are not active players. As a F2P game, it has a lot of inactive players, and its overall number of players who have logged into the game itself may be very high.
The vast majority of players leave forever after playing several times or mostly maybe days or weeks.
I tried to make statistics from another angle, Active Players online in real time. According to my calculations, there are currently about 6196 players online for random matching games, of which at least 1852 are console players, and there are at least 20% pure PvE battles in the server (one side No real players at all), over 45% of matches were highly unbalanced.
As a F2P game that has been in operation for several years, this report card is definitely not good. At least compared to his opponents who have to pay to play.
for enemy team you only have 1 quitter that quit when game was almost over
for your team
quit prematch and was replaced by another player
quit at the start
quit right at the end. think that his bots were still alive and he was replaced by this bot
so overall your team had 1 player that quit prematch and was replaced by another human play, then had 4 players that quit in various stages of the match, with 1 player that quit at match end alongside 1 enemy player that also quit at the end of the match.
this is all in line with your stats. cause you will be having some matches below average and some matches above average…
Lol, you think this game is currently balanced?
Lame excuse, I can literally said this on every system, First of all, XX does not solve the balance problem, players just look for new imbalances in the new XX.
BR can achieve other kind of diversity. Currently there is no point to use low level stuff once you get high level. By using BR, you can use low level stuff without losing advantage.
Lol BR have nothing to do with these stuff, Br is use to make better balance in this game. Why are you talking about two unrelated thing? Its like saying that car can’t fly so is not a good vehicle, is a car designed for flying in the first place?
