The Hino-Komuro M1904(日野式自動小銃) we know is a fake gun

“Hino rifle” posted by Killerwolf1024 has not been confirmed yet.

Yes.

Well, sadly Hino’s house burned down and the man starved after the war so thats gonna be a bit tricky.

Some findings from going through the older chats with friends, problem is we didn’t really write down the sources back then so I had to improvise a bit. I didn’t go digging to hard on these as well since they’re all just western mentions of the gun.

First the German mention of it
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“The Japan Times reported that the known military pilot Hino constructed a new automatic rifle by perfecting the dane pattern. The rifle has a simple mechanism and low weight, its rate of fire is supposed to be 100 rounds per minute.”

Which I think could be found here, but I didn’t go through the ~2200 pages yet

There’s also this from the SAC times

This from the British Journal of the Royal United Service Institution
"A New Automatic Gun

According to the Revista-Militar, trials have been made at the School of Musketry, at Tvyama, in the presence of the Emperor, of an automatic rifle invented by Major Nambu and Captain Hino of the infantry."

This from the Journal of the United States Cavalry Association:
“This automatic rifle was invented by Major Nambu of the Japanese artillery and Captain Hino of their infantry. It works similarly to a machine gun, but is much more simple and it can be carried by a soldier as he does an ordinary rifle without his movements being impeded.”

This from an Italian journal
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“Japan.
Automatic rifle.
From the Revista militar of Lisbon of last November we learn that at the Toyama shooting range, in the presence of the Emperor, an automatic rifle was tested, invented by Major Nambu of the artillery and Captain Hino of the infantry. Its functioning is similar to that of machine guns, but its use is easier, or it can be employed like an ordinary rifle.
Once the shot is fired, the breech automatically opens, the spent cartridge case is ejected and the firing pin is cocked, while another cartridge from the magazine rises into the chamber and the breech also closes automatically.
The rifle is now ready for another shot, and all you have to do is pull the trigger to fire.”

and this from the United Service Magazine
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As a side note there is also this Patent by Hino from 1944(?) for a Gun breech mechanism. (Thanks to @_DELAVR for bringing this to my attention again, I’ve seen it before but he reminded me of it)

https://www.j-platpat.inpit.go.jp/c1801/PU/JP-166388/15/ja

There’s definetly more to be found, but I thought I’ll send this for now as a quick update.
I know this sadly still doesn’t confirm the US gun is the Hino-Nambu.

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It read “出願 昭和十八年” which means “Proposed in 1943”.
This is indeed a patent for rifle and machine gun.
But we can’t rule out this possibility either: The patent application Hino filed in 1943 was for an idea that was never put into practice and had nothing to do with rifle from the Meiji period.
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I think we’re stuck in a dead end. Maybe oneday someone can be authorized to enter the warehouse of US Army Quartermaster Museum and do some research about it.

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Ofc, I just wanted to mention it since I had it on hand.

beautiful <3

Sorry, I mean Meiji period. :woozy_face:

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Some additional info, and a quick chat with @_DELAVR



New York Daily News, 13 June 1921



Letter from the American Embassy in Japan to the Japanese Minister of War requesting information about the Hino rifle.


@NonNational

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Thank you for your efforts, again.
Is the New York Daily News report from another weapon made by Hino? It seems to have no relation to the 1904 rifle.
Also, did the Japanese Minister of War reject the American request?

I think so, pretty sure Hino continued to work on SLRs even into the 40s as seen with that one patent.

Sadly don’t know, but I’d guess so or otherwise we’d probably have something in that regard documented on the US side :sweat_smile:

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@James_Grove @MajorMcDonalds
Hello James and McDonalds, I know developers have put a lot of work into the Hino rifle, and they are unlikely to abandon those efforts for reasons of historical accuracy.
What I hope is, when Hino rifle was released, can developers explain in the weapon description that the Hino rifle in game is based on imagination and we currently know very little about this weapon?

This is a more acceptable suggestion. Of course, if developers eventually decide to cancel the release of Hino rifle, I will be very grateful too.

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Hello, we forwarded this to weapon designer

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4F54153461502DE11DB613A41E7C500B_0


@James_Grove If you can, you can change it to this Nambu-style semi-automatic rifle, and the room can be changed to a BR2

Decision is now to make more accurate name in the game on that rifle.

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Any plan about weapon description?

Well i was reading about this rifle before more then 10 years and that’s why i given up on it cuz the information was very hard to find that’s why i excluded it from my Japanese tech tree but from my research about the gun there was 2 rifles one is 1904 the other one is 1896-97. There was an article and the first rifle was the first weapon he was working on then he moved to the pistol and the next rifle cuz he was very young. I cant find the article but i remember the books that i focused on before I given up on it:

  • Shinjin Tsuraisha Co., Ltd., “The People Who Pioneered Japan’s Army and Navy Aviation from its Founding to the End.”

  • Japanese Military Cartridge Handguns, 1893–1945: A Revised and Expanded Edition of “Hand Cannons of Imperial Japan”

-Akira Yoshimura’s book “Rainbow Wings” (Bunshun Bunko).

Before there was an article in forgotten weapons about it but now its taken down but since you are interested in the subject this is few books you can look at.

But back then there was a debate about the 2 rifles so it was very controversial weapon that’s why I didn’t included it in my Japanese tech tree ( Fixing Japanese Faction Full Tech Tree :jp: - Suggestions - Enlisted) and I was surprised that DF put it in game i was like how did they find information about it xD

And here is my personal opinion :

This rifle is Hino Komuro most likely for the simple reason that we don’t know other manufacturer that made blow forward rifles in Japan :

Blow forward

That how we presume its Hino Komuro rifle cuz there is no one else in Japan making blow forward rifles at the time. His pistol is also are blow forward.

7a15050f-2bef-422b-8bc2-b3862986fbcb
This rifle is also blow forward however there absolutely no info about it and we have are replicas. And as many people suggested even back then that it could be replica of the same rifle.

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The funniest thing is that Darkflow will find a thousand excuses to introduce / or not introduce a certain rifle.

For example, there was a topic on the Russian forum about a magazine for AVT and RPK for 20/25 rounds, and the guys found it and showed it to the Community Manager (for Pony-guy and Bird-guy) - a photo in comparison with other magazines by size, and book references, and drawings, and photos from museums, and even test results.

So in the end, the excuse was this: there is no photo from the OTHER SIDE, and we can’t model it! Well… And this rifle has as many as 2 photos, and this is based on an artificial papier-mâché craft)).

Bravo Darkflow, they come up with great excuses for their part-time workers.
Honestly, I don’t want to be a hater, but it’s hard.
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If you have problem figuring new battle pass weapons for Japan there is few options :

The A-grenade gun:
kou-01

Nambu-style large automatic pistol -:
nanbu11

Bae machine gun with the mag on bottom:
japanese-soldiers-training-for-kantokuen-a-planned-invasion-v0-qlnged43tfhb1

Type 100 Machine Gun Leg Usage
Type 100 Machine Gun Leg Usage

Type 99 with bamboo grenade launcher :

Type 99 with bamboo granade launcher

Type 26 pistol - “Type 90 tear gas”:
90-3

Type 96 with a shield for BR II :
Type_96_LMG_with_Type_99_shield

80-mm Navy AT rocket launcher:

Silencer weapons Type 99:
TTMGH_10

ZB -26 modified to shoot 6.5x50 mm Arisaka with 30 rounds curved mag:
ZB -26 30 round mag

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I added some quotes to the message above. Something on the verge of impossible has to be provided there for it to be added to the game. And the AVT mag, by the way, has since been shown from all sides!!)) Do you see AVT on 20 in the game? I don’t.

That’s how it is, but maybe you’ll get lucky.


It’s funny how the Gamemaster and the forum moderator discuss this, saying that there is no balance in the game lol!!! I like this company)), only Gaijin can do that

“from all sides”
And I’m not even joking, you can see for yourself.
There are even dug up ones, in another thread from this author.
image

But looking at the justification above, the answer is still the same. “THIS IS NOT ENOUGH!”)))

That’s how it is…

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Well 20 rounds AVT and a NEW tank at the end of the tech tree will be nice and some Semi auto for BR II

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At that time he had not even graduated from the military academy.
A friend of my once discussed about the “mysterious rifle” with Francis C. Allan.
Here is his answer:

There is no indication that they tested it at all. I think that the author was just able to get some of the more interesting weapons to photograph for the book.
I suspect that the rifle in question was one of the Himo semi - auto ( blow forward ) test rifle that failed to get adopted and was kept as an instruction or reference piece at the Tokyo Arsenal . At the end of the was it was seized by the Allies and then sent to the U. S. as a reference weapon, ending up at the Aberdeen Ordnance Museum.

Nothing is certain.

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