The big semi auto rifle problem

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1

so we have been playing with the 12 power semi auto rifles for a while now and it is just as i feared it would be, they are outclassing every gun in the game bar MG’s

this wouldn’t be a problem if it was a specialist weapon like said MG’s but its a universal weapon that every class except assault and vehicle crews can carry

the way i see it we have 2 choices here

1: nerf the big semi autos so other weapons have a place in the game again

2: give everyone the semi autos by default and stop wasting any further development resources on other inferior weapons

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yes there’s is p much no reason not to minmax your squad with automatic rifles.

If spawn costs were weighted or if semi-autos jammed and bolt actions didn’t, there’d be a reason to potentially keep bolt actions around.

also kind of what I’m afraid of happening with this game. Sea of available content but eventually everyone just ends up using the same couple tanks/rifles because they are so powerful with literally no downsides.
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1: No
2: But what about the sense of making progress in the campaign?

It is quite enjoyable as is, imo. You get to shoot bolts for a bit, then you grind to semis and live happily ever after.

The only gun I think they could safely remove that nobody will even notice is MAS-36.

On the other hand, I wish they brought shotguns back into the conversation.

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Yes, semi-autos outclass the bolt-actions, even with the M1 Garand and G43 doing 12 damage, and indeed even with the M1 Carbine doing, what was it, 7.5 damage or so? I also believe that at least the M1 Garand should be a universal weapon because the US standardized on it, they had 3,000,000 produced by summer 1944 if I’m not mistaken, the info is available online if you search for M1 Garand serial numbers. The Germans did not make a semi-auto rifle their standard-issue, so I can see the argument that the G43 should be limited to certain soldiers while troopers have to tend with the bolt-actions. Seems reasonable, even though people who actually play the German side (which I basically don’t) might not like it.

First-line infantry haven’t used bolt-actions, at least not with legitimate armed forces, since I think the Indians in the 1960s. Canadian Rangers still use bolt-actions to this day, recently replacing the .303 No.4 Lee Enfield with a Finnish .308 bolt-action, but they perform operations within our borders and mostly use the rifles for defence against wildlife and perhaps also to hunt. They are a branch of the Military if I’m not mistaken, but if there’s an actual invasion, I’m certain the Canadian Armed Forces would immediately see to deploying front-line capable troops with assault rifles and machine guns and what not and pull the Rangers away from where the invasion is coming from. At best, they might get the Rangers to act reconnaissance, but even then I’m skeptical. They’d surely use… I don’t mean to offend the Canadian Rangers, but a ‘more professional’ or ‘more combat-oriented’ branch of the Canadian Armed Forces. Anyhow, you get what I mean, BOLT ACTIONS ARE OUTDATED FOR FRONT-LINE INFANTRY ACTION, but the Germans kept with them. Even the Soviets had plans to make the SVT-40 standard-issue with intentions to produce 2 million per year by 1942, but Operation Barbarossa happened in summer 1941 so they had to change their plans and focus on cheaper Mosins to produce en-masse.

So, given that if you grind enough you can eventually replace literally ALL bolt-actions if you want (I only have 1 bolt-action sniper, the other 2 snipers have semi-autos), I propose 2 more options.

  1. Git gud and improve your accuracy, because if you hit them first they probably won’t get the chance to unload on you.

  2. Don’t get into the thick of the fight. Snipe from a distance, direct artillery from a distance, use mortars once you get them, get proficient at using irons from a long range, whatever. Just avoid getting in close where semi-autos will dominate you. Once you’ve grinded enough, eventually the number of bolt-actions will dwindle to just the snipers as you hand out juicy semi-autos.

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I think it’s odd you are so excited to have a meta force uniformity on you in a game setting that offers a plethora of options.

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6

Bolts work better for range, M2 carbine and Sten guns mow down Germans by the dozens. BAR does both, seriously, the limitations of semis are the limited ammo and lower dmg on long range.

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Implementing jams is interesting, but if we’re going to be realistic, they should be rare unless perhaps you’re crawling through dirt or mud. Firearms just don’t jam often when they’re clean and maintained.

I think we simply need to accept the fact that semi-autos are superior to bolt-actions. If there’s any distance to speak of, the semi-auto will require two shots to put someone on their knees. Recently I sniped at someone at what I think may have been 400m (the capture point was pretty close to the line between the enemy and me, and was maybe 2/3rds or so to where the enemy was, and it was around 250m+ away, can’t remember the exact distance, so I estimate around 400m or close to it. Took two shots with my M1 Garand sniper to put him on his knees (he was standing still), then he crawled into the shadow of a bush where I took two more shots to kill him, miraculously all hits.

The issue is, semi-autos SHOULD be common with America since they made them standard-issue. M1 Garand and M1 Carbine. In fact, maybe the M1 Carbine should also be restricted to specialty troops and not basic infantry because I actually use more M1 Carbine and M2 Carbines because the M1 Carbine has almost twice the capacity but more than half the damage which means it’s the better package for close-range. As for the M2 Carbine, oof, it’s ALMOST an assault rifle. I’m actually to the point that I need to force myself to have an M1 Garand with at least one soldier in each squad. This way, fewer people would have M1/M2 Carbine which are superior to the M1 Garand in close quarters.

Also, again, the Germans doggedly kept with the Kar98k and the G43 is arguably better than the M1 Garand a bit by doing the same damage (to my understanding) but having higher capacity. Don’t know how the recoil compares. So why should the Germans be able to unrealistically outfit all their troops with G43 but Americans can’t likewise unrealistically go heavy on the M1/M2 Carbine?

So it’s hard where to draw the line… I really do find myself tempted to make troopers in the Wehrmacht be restricted to bolt-actions, but then on the American side we REALISTICALLY go heavy on the semi-autos… but then if we restrict American troopers to bolt-actions or the M1 Garand while the M1/M2 Carbine is restricted to specialty troops… well, why the special treatment for the Germans who are unrestricted in that manner? Maybe M1 Carbine is fine for troopers but the M2 Carbine is regarded as an ‘assault weapon?’ I dunno… this is a very difficult thing to consider if we keep in mind realism vs gameplay fairness…

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Yeah, but the MAS-36 is French and they’re fighting in France and allegedly the Germans did hand out some MAS-36 rifles for some of their soldiers stationed in France, so it actually fits with the game in terms of realism. Though that said, I do believe almost nobody would notice, but I hope they don’t remove it.

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Could you explain what you mean? Force uniformity on me in what way?

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Semi-autos are already have extremely exaggerated inaccuracy and poor damage.

They should just be rarer to get or made to be available to only a few classes. For example, a new squad leader role could be made, such that first in the squad is SL on top of whatever class they already were. The SL could then be the only one in the squad capable of equipping semi-autos.

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Again, there is the problem that the US Military made semi-auto firearms standard-issue, even making sure that 2nd line troops like mortarmen and truck drivers and artillery (well, truck drivers and artillery might actually be farther back than 2nd line) have M1 Carbines instead of being stuck with pistols or an M1903 variant. The M1 Garand became America’s standard-issue rifle.

http://fulton-armory.com/faqs/M1G-FAQs/tea/m1serial.htm

Look at May 1944, just over 2.9 million on the last of the month which means that on D-Day there was over 2.9 million M1 Garands produced.

“Total production of the SVT-38/40 was around 1,600,000 rifles, of which 51,710 were the SVT-40 sniper variant.”

That is from Wiki and has 3 sources. I’m also pretty sure that SVT-40 production died down substantially in 1942 and was probably ceased by 1943 or 1944. Most production was during 1941, possibly over a million in that year alone, which would be the majority of production. The USSR really could have beaten America to the punch and the SVT-40 could have been the first ever standard-issue semi-auto rifle, but Hitler had other plans.

Wiki says there’s an estimated 402,000 G43s (possibly includes G41s) made during WWII, which is around one-seventh of America’s M1 production.

Meanwhile, according to a book called ‘The M1 Carbine’ published in 2011 by Osprey Publishing, over 6 million M1 Carbines were produced in WWII, let’s say 4.5 million by D-Day though it may well be more like 5 million… So collectively that’s around 7.5 million semi auto M1 Garands and Carbines altogether by D-Day, going against Germany who made little over one twentieth of that in terms of G43 through the entire war. I think the STG44 and variants came to 200,000? No, 425,000, so actually more STG and variants than G43 it seems.

So if anything, the Germans are being pampered with how many semi-autos that are being made available. The Kar98k Mauser was, to my knowledge, their most commonly-issued rifle throughout the war, possibly save for the very end when maybe more of those Volksturm ‘last ditch’ firearms were being developed, though I cannot confidently say for sure, but they DID make a slightly lower-quality ‘last-ditch’ Kar98k in the end, but nowhere near to the extent that the Japanese went with their externally-crude ‘last-ditch’ Type 99.

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12

Right. If it were up to me I would give the US no restrictions on semi-autos and let them unlock them earlier. In return the Germans should be left with the better MGs and also given better tanks, which could be more realistic.

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  1. I disagree. Semis used to be a bit OP before the nerf to accuracy. You will get beaten by rifles at long range usually. In close to mid they’re good but not the hip fire lasers they used to be.

  2. FG 42s are way better. With less recoil more accuracy and faster fire rate. If you nerf semis then low level players will have an even harder time vs high level players or other classes.

Overall I think they’re in a decent spot. IMO

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14

That sounds reasonable. Kinda weird how the Sherman Jumbo seems like the best tank in the game, but that said, that first-unlock German reconnaissance tank on rubber wheels did manage to take out my Jumbo with some skillfull maneuvering. I was at the B-point mansion on that one map, you know, the mansion! I made a turn around it, and either that recon tank had lucky timing or they had plotted the attack, but the back of the mansion involves a bit of a long stretch. They hit me several times in the arse (and it turns out the Jumbos have the same amount of armour in the back as the normal non-Jumbo Shermans) which took out my engine. I jumped out, repaired, lost 2-3 guys but got back in. Wheeled around, the recon tank was already coming up to me from behind. I missed the first shot, hit it twice with AP rounds, took out a few of their guys and I think also set the tank on fire but they kept hammering us. Ultimately, they blew up my Jumbo, with that pathetic excuse of a light tank. Honestly, good show, well done, and it shows that if you get cocky or are met with superior planning/tactics, even the seemingly best tank in the game can be taken out by the worst, which I appreciate.

I’ve also been taken out by Panzer III/IV a few times, but I find that usually in my Jumbo I tend to get the best of them. As for those reconnaissance tanks, several times I’ve taken them with a direct frontal hit of HE from the Jumbo, let alone AP. Oddly enough, that recon tank that flanked me from the rear hard, I was using AP from that but I guess I couldn’t get a direct hit. Still did lots of damage to 'em but I’m pretty sure they ultimately survived, unless nearby infantry (if there was nearby infantry) got them. I don’t know, but that little bugger sure got me. Well played!

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Yeah, I think the semis are alright too, and the Germans can unrealistically set up their squads with all semi-autos too so there’s that. Just gotta grind your way up, and hey, early-level US have to deal with bolt-actions just like the early-level Germans.

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16

I strongly disagree.

During CAT and CBT, semi auto rifles were nerf guns, where you needed around 3/4 shots to kills someone with little ammo that you got.

As such, I would highly avoid the same situation all over again.

And whoever tells that semi auto rifles are better than bolt action rifles, are quite wrong. ( for half ).

Yes, semi auto rifles are good for mid, and close range. As they should after all. They use the same ammunition of bolt action. So for caliber reason ( I’m no expert ) but it makes sense.

But the bolt action rifle it’s still the “king” for mid and far range. Not to mention, you still need those ( for the German army ) as further down the line you get k98s with grenade launchers. Which are god tier.

So, honestly, in my personal experience, they are not overpowered. As they requires lots of gears and dismantled weapons in order to be upgraded and made good.

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17

Yeah, there was a very good reason why semi autos were nicknamed as “pistols with extra recoil” back then.
Currently semi autos are actually useful. Bolt action rifle is not suited for close/mid range combat anyway, and recoil of semi automatic rifle limits their accuracy on longer distances.

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SOLUTION:

TROOPER I SQUAD → 10 men, all Boltactions
TROOPER II SQUAD → 8 men all Semi auto

ASSAULT I SQUAD → 7 men all SMGs
ASSAULT II SQUAD → 5 men all battle rifles and assault rifles

19

Thats… not a solution at all.

Again, I’d rather have them as they are now.

Because it’s just going be like Moscow, where you get them further down the line, when you kinda need them ( and should have them ) within the earlier levels.

But that’s my opinion.

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21

really? I thought their inaccuracy kinda balances them out. Good at close range but poor at mid/long range. I usually prefer fully upgraded bolt actions over fully upgraded semi autos for this very reason.