I don’t understand how a T-60, the starting tank for Russia, can destroy my panzer IV B with one shot, but yet my tank can not even damage it. Yet I am able to take out the T-26 and the BT-7 with five or six shots. This needs to be looked into and the T-60 armor needs to be nerfed or the panzer IV B gun needs to be upgraded to penetrate any part of the T-60. If it isn’t, this will drive people away from the game and kill it.
First the only “B” tank in game is Pz 3/III B and it’s all about where you shoot, the T-60 has fast firing 20mm cannon capable of penning the front of 2/5 of the German tanks in game so it’s pretty under powered when you compare it to all tanks.
Yes it can, shoot between the 7.6mm MG and 20mm Cannon, or shoot at the driver view point (which will give you one shot kill) doing this will kill the driver or gunner (or both) what means the T-60 won’t be capable of continuing fighting effectively.
AT, mines and explosive packs are always option when it comes to destroying enemy tanks you know so if you can’t take on it in a tank take it out as infantry.
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I don’t think the T-60 is OP per se, although some of the game mechanics brought over with the models from WT may be a little bit shady in “teh Russian Bias” department.
Where the Russian bias does kick in is in the selection of tanks themselves, where aside from the PzII, the other two variants of PzIII are incorrectly implemented if the concept of “Campaign” is to make any sense. Essentially the PzIII B was a prototype which only saw some service in the 1939 Polish campaign and was phased out shortly thereafter. The PzIII Ausf E was an LRIP variant run and once again phased out prior to Barbarossa. The entry PzIII could technically be the PzIII F , which was the proper mass-production variant armed with the 50mm short barrel gun, and more appropriately the PzIII G or H which were also armed with the 50mm short barrel and featured additional mantlet armour, and front/rear hull respectively - those along with the Pz38t, the PzII and PzIVs short barrel formed the core of the Panzerwaffe.
The Soviet tanks are correclty represented although they could also have done the BT-5 which was more numerous than the 7, but close enough.
The reason the T60 is so effective is that you have very artificially reduced ranges, which take away the majority of the German tank advantages in both quality of optics (there is no differentiation here) nor the correct disposition of periscopes/episcopes to faithfully represent what was able to be viewed from the tank. This affects speed of acquisition so again a bit of Russian bias kicking in. The reload rates are also dubious and don’t have the WT level of detail in them, which is a shame since they cut and pasted the models, they could have done the same for the other elements of the vehicles.
However, this is only beta, so there is hope yet.
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I wonder why there is no T-34-76 and KV-1 which definitely took part in the battle of Moscow and were a major factor to the successful defence.
My guess would be balance reasons, as almost nothing on the German side would be able to penetrate those Soviet tanks (even though I really hope to see T-34-76 and KV-1 in some other Eastern Front campaign in Enlisted, since these two tanks are unjustly never featured in WW2 fps games) and starter tanks would be absolutely outclassed later in the game’s life cycle.
Which is a separate concern I have regarding vehicle balance in the game: I am currently playing Moscow campaign as I’m not overly interested in Normandy and most tanks I meet are T-60 and T-26 but after let’s say a year a new player launching the game in their Pz II will be mostly meeting T-28s as most enthusiast will have unlocked it, and that’s gonna be a really bad day for this new player.
That’s correct, the early PzII, III and Pz38t, had major issues with them. Even the PzIV HEAT round was apparently dubious based on my reading. The majority of the T-34s, KW-1 and KW-2 were knocked out by AT - either the 50mm or the 88s. Alternatively many were also bombed by the Stukas, which are represented in the game but bomb HE is still undergoing tweaking.
As I suggested in the other thread on tanks, the Germans could have an AA squad added to the ORBAT which can spawn in an 88 in the same manner as the engineers can spawn in the 50mm, alternatively allow the Engineer II to spawn in the 88 instead of the 50mm, at which point you could begin to run the T-34s and KWs.
One of the other issues you also have is the size of the maps and the types of objectives which are a lot more infantry centric that WT. Probably to keep the fights more focused and minimise the need for troops running long distances in the open. Trucks and other transports already exist so perhaps they need to be better utilised by the players esp on the larger maps. Essentially it comes down to compromises but there are certainly a couple of larger maps in the Moscow and Normandy campaign which could support longer range engagements with the 88s. The 88 model is already in game all be it as a scenery prop.
I’ve now unlocked the PzIV and the PzB39 which are more than adequate to deal with any of the Soviet tanks. You still need to know where to aim in a fine tradition imported from WT, but if you hit any tank in the right spot with the PzIV its a one shot. The PzB39 is also a LOT better than its predecessor, esp in breaking track and knocking out the MG or turret traverse mechanism. So in short, don’t despair the end campaign is quite well balanced out.
If there is one thing they could tone down on is the ammount of automatic weapons available, and I would modify the secondary armament slot into a specialist weapon slot, or alternatively do away with it all together and allow a broader issue of pistols to the Anti Armour, Mortar, and Flamethrower squads. That would need the addition of pistols to the selectable armament section, rather than the random thingy they have going on right now.
Well, ok but then you would make some weapons pretty much obsolete. Best example is TOZ-B That no one in the right mind would take as the only weapon if you can also choose from PPDs that are objectively more universal than a shotgun (same thing applies for pretty much every shotgun in the game vs SMG). With way how secondary slots currently work you can at least choose to take them as secondary weapon for close quarters.
As for T60, It is by no means OP… sure it can penetrate Pz IIIB… but what can´t pen Pz IIIB? That tank was obsolete and out of service before operation Barbarossa began and thus have no place being in game in the first place. PZ IIC after nerfs have issues dealing with them, but it is still possible. Also t60 is easy to be flanked and have only two crewmembers.
yeah good point, I forgot about the Toz-B - stupid concept when you think about it, its pure gameism to include it, but whatever. Yeah good call out I don’t know… I don’t like the secondary weapon slot concept though its just seems cheesy, maybe its just me.
Who needs 6 shots for a T-26 lmao
The only “OP” part about T-60 is that it’s really hard to kill using AT rifle. T-60 can pen only first two german tanks, anything bigger and they have to run away, they can barely even damage tracks. As T-60 has only two crew member, single pen cuts it’s efficiency in half. Shooting into a drivers viewport, often kills both crew members. It is a tank that is a bit heavier armored but it’s definitely not OP as it posses no danger when you get 3rd german tank.
The most “OP” part about the T-60, is that it uses armor it shouldn’t have at that point in the war. It’s far thicker than it should be, and makes it tough to crack with the seemingly underperforming 37mm and 20mm rounds of the Pz. III B and Pz. II C.
Also, having to get the third tank of the campaign to counter the first tank of the enemy’s campaign just seems… Wrong. Especially considering the Pz. III B shouldn’t even be here. It was a prototype.
You don’t need third tank to get a counter. Third tank gives you full immunity against T-60.
There are two weak points on T-60 front, one is between cannon and mg, another is panel that covers driver, sides, are just one gigantic weak point. All of those are penned with anything above AT rifle. Of corse it’s easier to just one shot BT-7 with HE into a side or click delete T-26 with a single round under the turret. But the fact that you can just unlock tank that is completely immune to T-60 is absolutely hilarious. While you still get one shot by T-26 if player knows where to shoot.
My personal record was about a dozen tanks in an assault on the city map, 10 of those where T-60. It would be even more if I didn’t run out of all ammunition.
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