Suggestion to rework Normandy Campaign Vehicles

Suggestions
1

I would like to suggest a couple points of contention as to rework the vehicles in use in the Normandy campaign, and also make suggestions as to potential higher campaign tier vehicle matchups.

Of greatest issue is the M8 Scott - while yes, it does offer similar gun performance to the Pz 3N, it is inferior in most all respects to the Panzer 3. I see very little use of it in game, for reasons that should be obvious to anyone. For those of us who have played warthunder, it’s double a full uptier below the 3N, and is rather obviously unable to contend with it’s adversary.

There are, however, alternate vehicles that could, and I believe should, be considered for the allied side in place of the M8 Scott.

First of all, we have the most historically equivalent allied tank analogs - the Centaur IV, or a 105mm armed Sherman - both of which saw action at D-Day. The 105mm Sherman already being available in Warthunder for use as a model. While arguably marginally better in the context of enlisted due to a larger explosive charge in it’s ammunition, this would be merely a reversal of the relative difference in performance we see with the base vehicles, between the M5A1 and Puma, rather than the sort of disparity currently between the M8 and Pz3N.

If it is the intent of the developer to maintain a performance disparity at this tier with allied vehicles having a disadvantage, then there are still other options that would offer lower performance while being suitable. For these alternatives, I would propose either the Valentine XI, which was used as a command tank by the UK, or the M10 GMC - which while offering greater anti-tank performance, would have worse anti-infantry performance than the M8. Either would be a better match-up in comparison to the Pz3N than the M8. Though these would be less direct competitors than the howitzer examples prior.

Beyond such, I would propose a modification of the campaign tree at higher tiers as well. Considering that I would assume 40 or 50 campaign levels in a more completed tree, and thus at least two more AFV’s would be placed, we would likely see a Panther and a Tiger at the top of the tech tree.

To facilitate this, I would propose as follows; moving the M4A2 up against the Pz IV H, and the M4A3E2 Jumbo to compete against the Tiger, in whichever position it is in.

Against the Pz IV J, there are a few better analogs on the allied side, assuming he M4A2 has been moved up a slot - of which the M18 GMC being the best candidate for such which saw action at D-Day.

Then to compare against the Panther, I would recommend the Sherman Firefly as it’s allied counterpart, or if it is decided to avoid UK vehicles where possible, the M4A2 76 is an option, with such having been available in the UK prior to D-Day, even if it was refused by troops for the invasion itself.

I believe taking such into account would lead to a more balanced AFV meta in the Normandy campaign in Enlisted, and improve the game overall as a result, as well as increase the variety of vehicles present.

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2

For reasons I don’t fully understand, the M4A2 is unable to pen the Panzer IV H frontally anywhere but around the turret ring. In War Thunder the M4 is able to pen the Panzer IV H in the upper glacis and turret front. Why this isn’t the case confuses me, but as it stands the M4A2 is vastly inferior to the Panzer IV H currently.

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3

I’ve noticed in general that cannons in Enlisted seem to have lower penetration performance than they should. I’d like to think this would be corrected at some point, like the lack of stabilizers on various US tanks, so in the long term the M4A2 should be comparable to the IV H, even if in it’s present state it’s not. I’m largely taking these considerations for suggested vehicles off of my Warthunder experience, admittedly.

Though again, the M8 is the worst offender right now.

4

Turret…

5

M8 Scott can pen panzer 4 frontally, also Jesus no you ideal are horrible Tiger would be broken as fuck in Nonnady at least against jumbo and this is not war thunder stop acting like it, I won’t even read the rest of this since it’s obviously a series of bad ideas made with War Thunder in mind rather than Enlisted

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6

Given the team in question, and the stated points made by them, I would assume they intend to incorporate increased historical accuracy over time, which would mean that the models would be made more accurate. And thus more like those in Warthunder.

I’ve also never seen an M8 Scott penetrate a Pz 3 or 4 frontally in Enlisted yet.

As for a Tiger being “broken as fuck”, there’s really not a good equivalent to the Jumbo on the Axis side, so it’s about the closest you’re going to get, besides perhaps the Panther, but the Panther doesn’t fit the same niche (being that it has comparatively low HE mass). Even if the Tiger would be considerably more powerful in the context of Enlisted, so is the Jumbo, assuming the Jumbo were modeled accurately, in comparison to, well, anything else.

7

Yet I have seen it, the performance disparity is literally a none issue you pulled from God know where again I don’t care what you think they will do what matter is the current state and literally everything besides the panzer 3 can take our the jumbo besides the port there’s flanking, puma can club the shit out of it, not to mention the d-day map where the elevated position of the Germans tanks can shit on jumbo, what you want for the game is a shitty meta of shooting gun barrels and then loading aphe to kill some crew and flank the thing, the Tigger would be ridiculously over unbalanced not to mention the maps it would be a nightmare in the vast majority of normandy maps, and again the panther is another overkill cause it gun is way more powerful and it would aswell be hurt by the maps like the tiger, you proposal is just horrible and screams of war thunder experience instead of enlisted, again the M8 is a none issue and besides the panzer 4 being fairly solid against jumbo you literally get puma as a default which drive for a few seconds get on his side and blast him

8

Instead of bringing even more broken vehicles to counter existing ones we should rather try to convince devs to remove Jumbo (and any other vehicles that are not historically accurate in the campaigns we have). Keep in mind that even if those two tanks would be equals -M5 vs Tiger would be not. And because there is no “campaign level” matchmaking - those situations would happen very often.

2 Likes
9

Your solution is throwing something that would be ridiculously OP to fix a way smaller gap in performance

10

They won’t Jumbo is here to stay they said it

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11

That a Puma can flank a jumbo is largely the same experience a Tiger would theoretically experience from a number of US tanks. Same with the Panther. Regardless, this is not something exactly ideal either, and I concur that ideally, there would not be a jumbo, panther, or tiger in Normandy. But I also anticipate there will be a number more campaign levels added, and ultimately it is a matter of time, so the best solution is to determine closest equivalents for such.

12

And this is dissapointing. But still it is not reason to break it even more by introducing Tigers. It already bad that we will get Panthers…

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13

What would be ridiculously OP as to my suggestions to replace the M8 Scott in comparison to the 3N?

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14

No it wouldn’t there nothing with the pen and the mobility of the puma, it offers a hard hitting gun with excellent performance and one shot that thing

15

I know, tell it to him also will we? Btw I have made peace with the jumbo in Normandy due to d-day and the Germans being overall better

16

I’m not comparing the M8 to the Puma, I’m comparing it with the Panzer 3N, which is it’s campaign tree supposed-equivalent? Why would my suggestions be OP in comparison to the 3N?

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17

Honestly, I don’t really care about tank against tank balance anymore most important thing is that infantry will be capable of destroying enemy tanks.

Tanks are meant to be infantry support armored vehicles.

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18

Literally a none issue it’s a you problem, legit the first time I have heard of anyone having an issue with the m8 and panzer 3 having some kind of disparity I see plenty of m8 and used em in occasions and also died from them

19

you do realize that stuart can’t defeat tiger 1’s armor from anywhere while puma can defeat jumbo’s armors especially from the side? though i’ve recommended to others and always have wanted the jumbo to be replaced with sherman 105

panther meant be the same since you have to remember that the panther weighs as much as a kv-1 with insane armor to boot. also this isn’t war thunder and you will have all vehicles facing each other so you have to take that into account for balancing

2 Likes
20

Wtf are you on about when I brought puma up I was talking about it’s ability to club jumbo with using the minimum effort of mental capacity and driving around it (pretty ez and fast with map design and no third person be detect like in WT tank RB)

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