Suggestion: more interesting infantry VS tank combat

[tchof_]

Hi,
Today I will be talking about different and more unique ways of introducing light, anti-tank weapons

The current system

In Enlisted, regular soldiers can only arm them selves with TNT packs so they can counter tanks

Today I did some research and playing I found out that the TNT pack doesn’t care about the armour and damage it does is based on distance where it’s being thrown away from the target and not the actual armour penetration.

This means, you can throw it on pretty much every tank and do the same exact damage

The suggested system

Now that a new way of arming soldiers with grenades has been announced, I will make a suggestion based on that system

@Keofox

Backpack, grenade and explosives pouch, ammo bandolier. These are example illustrations

After studying your feedback we decided to rework the equipment system for soldiers, limiting the amount of different items you can take into a fight.

The inventory size will be lowered by default and most soldiers will get new slot for specific kinds of carry, allowing planning and organizing carrying equipment in the squad with better precision and tactics, being limited in its type:

• Backpack — allows you to take more inventory items, like medpacks.
• Ammo bag — increases carried ammo supply for the main weapon.
• Grenade bag — you can equip more grenades, but less of other item types.

1. Molotov Cocktail

Molotov Cocktail should be the standard anti-tank weapon for every trooper. When using this weapon, you can even take out a Tiger tank just by hitting the engine area, Problem with it is that it takes a bit of time for a tank to completely burn up so it makes Molotov Cocktails a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none weapon. To deal damage, Molotov must be thrown exactly on top of the engine area.

Pros:
*Can take out every tank in the game
*Lightweight so it can be carried together with other grenades
*Easy to use

Cons
*Takes 30-60 seconds for a tank to burn up
*Can only deal damage when thrown on the engine block
*Player has to get behind the tank in order to hit the weakspot

2. TNT pack (changed)

In real life, This weapon was good when destroying tank tracks and transmission.

In Enlisted, it can be very deadly against armored cars and light tanks, but basically any tank with better armour will be almost immune to this weapon. TNT pack has about ~20mm of armour penetration and can be very good when thrown underneath the tank or on top of it.
TNT pack almost always damages tank tracks even when thrown 1-2 meters away from the tank. It can be used to immobilize a heavier tank or destroy a lighter tank.

Pros
*Devastating damage when the armour is penetrated
*Can easily blow up tracks
*Can destroy other objects and vehicles (already present mechanic)

Cons
*Very bad armour penetration
*Heavy ! Takes a lot of inventory space, only lefts one space for a Molotov or a hand grenade and medkit

3. Anti-tank grenade

This weapon is only present in the battle of Moscow due to the lack of use after rocket launcher was developed.

AT grenade is a very deadly weapon and the strongest against the tanks. It basically works like TNT pack with more armour penetration but worse blast radius. But it comes with a prize, it takes ALL the inventory slots only leaving the spot for medkits. When the armour is penetrated, it deals less damage than the TNT pack

Pros
*Great damage
*Can destroy medium 1941 tanks from the side, rear, top and bottom hull area
*Very easy to use

Cons
*Heavy ! Takes almost all the inventory space only leaving the medkit
*Deals less damage than the TNT pack
*Can’t take out tank tracks as efficient as the TNT pack can

[ghostofishmael]

You claim premium squads are P2W then suggest changes to make tanks even more of an industrial kill farmer.

I think these are bad ideas.

Are we also going to implement the spalling that was generated from the early Russian tanks using poor quality, untreated steel or riveting? (inb4 that wuz propaganda)

Easy fix is find a friend to cover you from infantry and their literal one, very short range counter to your hundreds of rounds of MG and HE ammo.

[ErikaKalkbrenner]

i’m not here to defend him,

but there’s quite a difference between being counterable, and being a terminator squad…

so…

@67929529

quality, untreated steel or riveting?

haha, this was suggested if the t34 and kv1 were going to be a thing so…

@67929529

Easy fix is find a friend to cover you from infantry and their literal one

exept, this is not always possible. again, having more way to kill a tank it’s better than having only 1.

i mean, after all, tanks were being damaged by molotovs as well so…

[twoand900]

Kinda funny we haven’t seem AT grenade yet, there where a lot of them that functions in different ways.

[ghostofishmael]

We have satchel charges that don’t cat kill 100% of the time, molotovs with a DOT and AT rifles that do pithy pithy damage and tankers still complain.

I understand everyone here comes to push agendas but some of what I seen are so naked.

“nerf germans because reasons”

“STG44 should make russians explode with one shot”

“infantry should never be able to kill my steel beast”

See plenty of tankers do cheesey stuff like sit at the edge of the map and farm 50+ kills or simply drive through showers of molotov and satchel charges and shrug them off until one really gets a direct hit.

They seem ambivalent to these “counters” and their kill ratios reflect it.

Buffing tanks and nerfing infantry AT is not “interesting” and bandying words like that just makes you seem incredibly disingenuous.

TLDR: he mad most infantryman carry some sort of molotov or explosive pack and want to de-incentivize it.

[Josephs_Piano]

the RPG 40 is “just” a large hand grenade - it’s not hollow charge like the later RPG-43 - so effectively it is just a different size of explosive pack - I think of it as a smaller pack, or a larger hand grenade.

it’s not a substantial change - and it certainly doesn’t deserve to take up all the equipment slots.

So yeah - a nice to have graphic, but not really game altering in any significant way.

[twoand900]

Not sure what all that has to do with what I said. I would just liked to see AT grenade as they had them in real life, not sure how that is “bandying words” or makes me “incredibly disingenuous”.

[TheCatequil]

@67929529

satchel charges that don’t cat kill 100% of the time

Except they do if you, idk, learn to cook and aim them.

@67929529

Buffing tanks and nerfing infantry AT is not “interesting” and bandying words like that just makes you seem incredibly disingenuous.

The suggestions here seem to be buffs overall. You just get less chances to kill a tank, which only an issue if you are bad with AT grenades. Carrying up to 5 explosive charges is way too many anyways. Most soldiers were issued maybe 1-2 normal grenades, while explosive chargers were reserved to Engineer/Pioneer squads.

[Attic_Annie]

AT rifles can be absolute monsters, they’re just inconsistent.
Biggest thing to remember about them is their range is enormous, so you can easily set yourself up for 200m tank kills where the tanker has no idea where you are and can’t retaliate because of it.

I’ve even had instances in my BT where I did know where the AT rifle was shooting from, generally, but all of the HE I was lobbing back wasn’t doing anything so I had to sit it out in a corner until the infantry mopped it up when I told them about it.

[ghostofishmael]

wasn’t referring to you. Russians and Germans both had a number of different designs, some magnetic, some with parachutes. I think it would be a cool addition.

@8383908 Yeah they seem really inconsistent with leaning towards the negative.

[tchof_]

Hi everyone, I wasn’t there to chat with you so I’ll do it now:

@67929529

make tanks even more of an industrial kill farmer.

I’m very sorry for the misunderstanding but my suggestion simply adds more options. The thing is that TNT pack doesn’t really work like an actual TNT pack. I’m not trying to make tanks OP, I want to add an option to use TNT packs for insta-killing light tanks and taking out tank transmission while for heavier tanks, players can use Molotov Cocktails and AT grenades. Molotov Cocktail is even easier to throw than TNT pack plus it can be carried by pretty much everyone.

@67929529

inb4 that wuz propaganda

Off-topic, I won’t answer this

@67929529

Easy fix is find a friend to cover you from infantry and their literal one, very short range counter to your hundreds of rounds of MG and HE ammo

That is doable even with the current system and it’s called team work and good tactic

When I struggle to take out a tank, I just built a cannon, bomb the tank or take it out with another tank

[Lord_Kerry]

1. Molotov Cocktail…
   ​Pros:
   *Can take out every tank in the game

What about the T-34? It could definitely be damaged by Molotov Cocktails to a certain amount, But it was liquid cooled, diesel powered and had a redesigned engine cover to counter the use of such incendiary devices.

[tchof_]

I know that but I’m concerned about the gameplay

We can avoid that part, t-34 with all it’s glory will be hard to implement

[Ratardo]

So its buff cause it nerfs changes to kill tanks? Yeah buff to tankers they really need it.

Mayby we need more intresting tank gameplay. Like increasing tank cooldown to 16 squads, its major buff cause its decreases tankers dead count to 1 per match

[ghostofishmael]

“have all hand held anti-tank consume 90% of your inventory slots”
That’s a super hard nerf

“make TNT less effective at killing tanks on top of taking up all your inventory”
This is another super hard nerf

“add another inventory item you have to farm to equip, but also make it less effective at killing tanks and also have it take up all your inventory slots”
yet another nerf to infantry anti-tank capability.

Why not just say “I find it unacceptable my Russian wonder weapon gets destroyed by infantry so often”

If you’re that worried about infantry killing your tank War Thunder is another great game by Gaijin and has plenty of Russian premium tanks and zero infantry. (some modes do have AI anti-tank guns tho)

[tchof_]

@67929529

“have all hand held anti-tank consume 90% of your inventory slots”
That’s a super hard nerf

“make TNT less effective at killing tanks on top of taking up all your inventory”
This is another super hard nerf

“add another inventory item you have to farm to equip, but also make it less effective at killing tanks and also have it take up all your inventory slots”
yet another nerf to infantry anti-tank capability

You haven’t read the news haven’t you

@Keofox

Backpack, grenade and explosives pouch, ammo bandolier. These are example illustrations

After studying your feedback we decided to rework the equipment system for soldiers, limiting the amount of different items you can take into a fight.

The inventory size will be lowered by default and most soldiers will get new slot for specific kinds of carry, allowing planning and organizing carrying equipment in the squad with better precision and tactics, being limited in its type:

• Backpack — allows you to take more inventory items, like medpacks.
• Ammo bag — increases carried ammo supply for the main weapon.
• Grenade bag — you can equip more grenades, but less of other item types

I don’t want to nerf them, I want to replace them with Molotovs because it’s more cool looking

@24629012

So its buff cause it nerfs changes to kill tanks? Yeah buff to tankers they really need it.

That goes to you too

[ghostofishmael]

. (totally not mad at being called out, check out my smiley faces while I move goal posts for the sake of my thinly veiled argument)

changing the inventory system to accommodate modifiers like backpacks and bandoliers does not equal making TNT the only thing you can carry.

Like I said, at the very least you can be honest and just say " I think tanks are too easy to destroy"

[tchof_]

@67929529

" I think tanks are too easy to destroy"

I think the way tanks are being taken out is boring and I would like more options

[Josephs_Piano]

like what - dog mines? Kamikaze foxholes??

[tchof_]

@Josephs_Piano

dog mines? Kamikaze foxholes??

I’m not going to answer this