Suggestion for equipment for the Tunesia campaign - my recommendations

Evaris · June 4, 2021, 2:19am

I figured I’d cover what would be most ideal to see in Tunesia, for equipment, in my opinion; I’m rather hoping we’ll see less copy/paste in the campaign, and might see Italian and UK/commonwealth equipment where possible. I know this may be a bit late to things, but still, here’s what I’d personally like to see, under that consideration - do feel free to let me know if you think there would be better considerations for various positions, or if you feel I’ve missed something that could fit in.; (this is basically just a wishlist, but hey, it’s fun to theorize / suggest)

Axis | Allies:

Bolt action rifles:
Carcano Modello 1938 | Pattern 1914 Enfield Mk2
Carcano M91/41 | Lee-Enfield No.4 Mk1
Kar 98k | Ross Rifle

Semi-auto rifles:
Armaguerra Mod. 39 | M1 Carbine
Gewehr 41 | Howell Automatic Rifle [Premium?]
Selbstlader M1916 | Farquhar-Hill [Gold Weapon Order]

Sniper Rifles:
Karbiner 98k ZF39 | No. 3 Mk I (T)
Karbiner 98k ZF42 | No. 1 Short Magazine Lee–Enfield Mk III* (HT)

Anti-tank weapons:
Panzerbüchse 39 | Boys anti-tank rifle
Fucile anticarro tipo S | M1 Garand with M8 Rifle Grenade Launcher, M9A1 HEAT Grenades

Flamethrowers:
Lanciafiamme Modello 35 | M1 Flamethrower
Lanciafiamme Modello 41 | M1A1 Flamethrower

Mortars:
Brixia Model 35 | SBML 2-inch Mortar Mk II***

Fighter:
Macchi C-202 | Typhoon Mk Ia
Fw 190 A-1 | Spitfire Mk Vb/trop

Attacker:
Re.2001 CB | Hurricane Mk IIB/Trop
Hs 129 B-2 | Hurricane Mk IV
JU-88C6 | Blenheim Mk IV

(Edit 1: Swapped Panzer 3G for panzer 3J, given it’s a better match for the early Valentine, added higher tier tanks)
(Edit 2: Swapped SMLE Mk III for Pattern 1914 Enfield Mk2)
(Edit 3: Swapped No. 4Mk1 (T) for No. 3Mk1(T) )
(Edit 4: Adjusted / added Attacker class Planes)
(Edit 5: Replaced the Solothurn S-18/1000 Anti-tank rifle, which was only evaluated for service by the allies, with the M8 Rifle Grenade Launcher firing M9A1 HEAT Grenades - which was actually used and saw service with Allied troops in North Africa.)
(Edit 6: Added gold equipment order rifle suggestions, the Farquhar-Hill and Selbstlader M1916)

Winter_Storm · June 4, 2021, 2:24am

i wouldn’t mind seeing that and maybe for heavy tanks they could have tiger 1 and churchill?

Josephs_Piano · June 4, 2021, 2:34am

There’s a lot of non-equivalents in there - how you going to balance it all?

Eg Souma vs Valentine, Churchill vs Tiger are pretty poor matches - although there’s 1 bad match on each side…

But the Italian tanks are well outclassed by the British ones in most important respects

British sniper rifle could be the P14, and it could also be an initial rifle for them - Pattern 1914 Enfield - Wikipedia

Also Ross rifle could be in there for het Brits.

Were Typhoon and Fw 190 used in Africa?

Evaris · June 4, 2021, 4:43am

For Tunesia, Matilda II, Churchill, and Tiger would be technically historically accurate, but honestly, none of them are really good in regards to balance considering the rest of the tanks at that time, and the lack of effective infantry anti-tank weapons to counter them.

The Churchill also wasn’t used in North Africa until the battle of El Alamein, with 75mm armed Mk III’s. Similarly, the Tiger didn’t see service until December of 1942, late in the North Africa campaign. While technically you could have a Churchill III vs Tiger 1 as top tier tanks, and they did see service in Tunesia, it’d still be a painful experience in regards to balance on the whole, I’d think.

Evaris · June 4, 2021, 4:53am

Did… did you read the rifles and the like? I mean, I listed the Ross and sniper variants of the Enfield rifle there. And yes, both the Typhoon and FW190 were used in North Africa to the best of my knowledge.

As for the discussion about tanks;

Souma vs Valentine - Souma would be better vs infantry, with a faster firing gun and slightly more HE, they have similar armor, both are able to pen each other. Also, premiums. The valentine in question is using a US made engine and transmission. Wasn’t really sure what else would work for a UK premium at that level.

As for Italian tanks, I went for the best two Italian tanks that saw service in North Africa, and… what are probably the two worst UK tanks that saw service in North Africa with actual tank guns. (and at least the most easily penned in return) As far as Warthunder experience / BR’s are concerned, as it’s pretty much the only thing to go off of, at least, in tank vs tank, the L6/40 should be slightly better than the Cruiser Mk1, and the M14/41 should be slightly worse than the Crusader Mk2 (keep in mind I’m suggesting the Mk1, which has less armor than the Mk2), but they should be competitive. In regards to machineguns for anti-infantry, the Italian tanks should have slightly more powerful MG’s and shorter reloads on those MG’s, though with smaller magazines.

For German tanks, the Panzer 3 G and Valentine Mk3 should have similar performance on the whole, with the former being considerably better vs infantry but the latter being better at Anti-tank. The F1 Vs Grant would be a bit worse for the Axis side again, but the axis tank would again, be better at anti-infantry.

Winter_Storm · June 4, 2021, 5:21am

their excuse for adding them will be the fact that their campaign page gives just the years so tunisia will be from 42-43 so vehicles from around those time would be added, this is also balantly obvious with the fact that jumbo is in normandy despite not being there till august. An interesting idea for an MM i had is what if they do one where you’ll be matched up around certain levels like a level 5 being matched with a level 3,4,6,7 and maybe an 8

Evaris · June 4, 2021, 5:24am

That’s fair, though even still, 1943 churchills were still quite a bit worse than a Tiger 1. They can fight back, but… well, it’s more lopsided than any of the other suggestions I made. (Also I did add higher tier tanks to the OP with an edit) I’d rather not have another situation like we already have with the Panzer 4H vs the Jumbo.

But that sort of MM, with a soft level bracket (between sets of 10 campaign levels), wherein after a certain amount of time in the queue it’d open up to an all-levels bracket (just in case there’s no one at top level for a time or the like) would probably be something that should be added regardless, to keep noobs from being put up against people with top-end gear and soldiers.

Winter_Storm · June 4, 2021, 5:27am

agreed and those soft brackets will punish people who buy into end game gear so maybe if you buy passed level 10, the game worries you that you’ll face more skilled players?

Evaris · June 4, 2021, 5:28am

Yeah, it would. Of course, they could build up skill in other campaigns, or cash in for gear if they’re pushing campaign levels like that. If they’re a wallet warrior they’ll do the latter anyway. lol, that said, campaign levels aren’t cheap to try to cash your way through so I wouldn’t worry about it too much. There aren’t many whales willing to shill out that kind of money, I’d hope.

Winter_Storm · June 4, 2021, 5:30am

yeah i hope so too but you’ll never know, and have a good day

Josephs_Piano · June 4, 2021, 5:48am

Sorry - mised hte Ross - but yes UI saw the No 4 sniper - but early in the war the P14 was still the marksman rifle of choice.

And without sights it was stil in use with 2nd line units too - so a good starting gun because ther is no effective difference between the Mk III and No 4 infantry rifles… although I’m sure they’ll manage to manufacture something

Evaris · June 4, 2021, 5:58am

Well, there’s a difference in the sniper variants, and the main issue with more snipers is… the Axis didn’t really have much for snipers in North africa besides Kar 98’s.

I will take into consideration your points for the P14 and adjust the rifles accordingly. I was under the impression though, that the Mk3* sniper variant had a heavier barrel than the P14 or No 4 sniper variants, and would thus stand out as the most ideal top-end sniper for the Tunisian campaign.

Serpiko82 · June 4, 2021, 6:34am

Regarding vehicles:

The Typhoon mk.I is an early and not-so-iconic version armed with .303 MGs.
As a starter plane for Allied forces, I’d rather suggest Hurricane m.IIB, later to be replaced by Typhoon mk.II. Both could be carrying their famous rockets.

The Macchi 202 has good flight performances, but unfortunately it carries no ground ordnance whatsoever, and it’s weaponry is limited to 2x 13mm (+ some versions with 2 extra 7.7mm), so eventually it would be a wasted slot. Nobody would choose it for CAS purposes.
The starter Axis plane could be either a Stuka, or a Reggiane 2001 CB (fighter-bomber) which would be comparable in performances to the Hurricane, with bombs.

Bombers wise, Italy could bring SM.79, whose max load of 6x 100 kg would make it useful but not OP. (EDIT: I need to check though, max payload should be around 1200 kg.) Could Brits perhaps use the Mosquito?

Talking about tanks, Italy could provide the Semovente 75/18, whose firepower would be on par with M8 Scott or PZ.III in Normandy. And / or armored cars such as the AB43

Josephs_Piano · June 4, 2021, 6:51am

Brits should have Blenheim and Maryland/Baltimore

Serpiko82 · June 4, 2021, 6:54am

Also valid bomber options. I thought about the Mosquito for its fighter-bomber abilities, in game it would perform similarly to the Bf110 in Normandy.
EDIT: unless I’m messing up with dates and Tunisia is too early for the Mossie

Evaris · June 4, 2021, 6:55am

I’m well aware of the version of the Typhoon I suggested being armed with what I did, as I was looking for the closest equivalent to the Macchi 202 that saw service at the time. The Hurricane Mk.IIB is already there on the list in the Attacker role.

As I’m wanting to avoid additional attackers (as we know how that is in game already), and I don’t know of the Mosquito being used in North Africa.

The SM.79 was largely out of service by the North african campaign, as per wikipedia; "… At the beginning of 1941 only around 40 SM.79s were still present in Libya, and by the end of 1941 only one operational squadron remained… " Given the setting is 1942-1943, the German Ju88 is a far better tactical bomber / attacker option. The issue with the Mosquito is two-fold. First, it would be considerably better than the Ju88, even the C6. Secondly, I’ve found nothing to suggest the Mosquito was used in the North African campaign.

The Re.2001 CB could be used for a plane in North Africa, and might be a better counterpart to the Hurrican Mk.IIB/trop.

With the above considerations, I’ll adjust things, and will probably position the Blenheim in against the Ju88.

Serpiko82 · June 4, 2021, 6:59am

I admit that I’m used to think about match-ups from a War Thunder perspective, where dates and places of service are mostly disregarded, my bad.

Evaris · June 4, 2021, 7:00am

That’s rather understandable, I tend to think of vehicles in much the same way, albeit of course with then consideration for performance vs infantry. With that said, I mean, the Mosquito is an odd plane in this regard, as while it was in service at the time, I just can’t find anything suggesting it was used in North Africa. Granted, I’m limited to Google, but still.

GeneralBrus · June 4, 2021, 7:53am

I guess the only way to balance Tunesia is to make it early war, not just because of the Tiger tank, but think about it, the british infantry was basically all enfields and bren guns.
FG42s, G41, G43 or STG wouldnt find a real counter rifle.

I mean, did the brits even have a semi auto gun? im not even aware of prototypes.

Josephs_Piano · June 4, 2021, 8:02am

They had lots of prototypes and also various attempts to convert Lee Enfields - only the New Zealand Charlton got any production - 1500 - and they all stayed in depots in New Zealand against hte possibility of a Japanese invasion - that’s about as far away from Tunisia as you can get!!

They rejected early versions of the M1 Garand as too unreliable!!

and this - you will notice a lot of them are in .276 - right before WW1 the Brits were trialling .276 as a possible replacement for .303… then, well… adopting a new caliber got a bit problematic!!

And here:

https://www.forgottenweapons.com/rieder-automatic-rifle/