The guy in the air and in support are able to kill many people at a time, often wiping out a squad or two. Grey campers just sit on their ass and pick off any target of opportunity one at a time. If we should get technical about it, then sure, even grey campers contribute to the capture/defense of an objective to some extent but only the bare minimum. They could be doing better for the team, but they don’t want to.
Well that’s a highly subjective assessment, and then again so is mine, could be the guy in that tank sucks at CQB and would only die a lot if he were playing infantry and would hurt the team more than help it if he were on the point.
Another, radical, way to look at this might be instead of penalizing the tankers, give them an incentive to go to the point, make it so they can capture from the tank on the point and reward them for doing so the same way infantry or dismounts are.
Because all the point really offers tanks atm is basically instant death with no reward save the few kills they will get there before there TNT’ed.
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I’m going to have to lean more toward Brrady on this one. Grey zone camping for the most part is a let down on the team in most cases. However, that said, in certain circumstances it becomes a highly advantageous tactic. An example of high effective grey zone camping for the team is D Day on Normany, Axis side. Putting a tiger on the hill at the start of the game can effectively blockade 75% of the attackers and lay waste to their tickets with near impunity save for any plane. When I do this, we win about 90% of the matches at the first point.
I think a simpler explanation is that the majority of the infantry players have tunnel vision, and a rapid respawn dependency in this alleged pursuit of the objective…
ie. IF the infantry was better at defending their AFVs perhaps these would venture out of the greyzone.
The tank in infantry support is a direct fire platform that has two roles in the game, irrespective of historical accuracy, since the game does not set the conditions well for this, the first is to kill the other AFVs and the second to suppress enemy infantry with direct fire.
One of the biggest issues I see in games is the lack of flank protection, whilst here will generally be a bot assisted pile-on onto the objective, the flanks are left open. In many cases I see AFV fulfilling this role of flank protection as they try to not only provide direct fire spt into the objective LOS permitting, but equally conducting flank battles in their own right.
Most maps artificially induce this scenario, not only with their objective set up, but also the terrain on and around it.
I think the core issue with tanks and aircraft in the game is that they take away real players from the bot farm, and thereby reduce the pressure on the objective itself. When the real player population in the game increases - as they polish it up from BETA to whenever it enters release - the issue of player bleed to supporting arms will decrease.
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I’ve experienced this as well. There is certainly an initial period of kill farming, but when you fight competent Allied teams on Normandy, they will always have at least 2 aircraft in the air, which once again if they’re moderately competent will bomb the tanks quickly enough.
My Tiger in Normandy rarely gets more than a few min of sniping. A capable allied player will mark me and then its bombs and rockets incoming. The terrain is so shit on that map, that no tank has any chance of evading anything… The smart radio op will blanket the German FP with smoke to buy time for the allies to get through the beach and set up spawns.
Its just a matter of MM draw whether you get an allied team with enough high level players, who quickly understand the situation and take the initiative to begin reducing the backbone of the defence.
It would be good if the allied engineers could clear lanes through the tank traps and wire for the infantry to follow up. They will need to import the explosive charges from Stalingrad to do this.
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I have experienced that exact counter you just described. But again in my experience it is only about 10% of the games where this applies. In order for the allies to counter a tiger on the hill on D Day, I believe they need at least 2 competent players who understand the situation, one radio and one plane. But the scarcity of competent players makes this rare. If you ignore the tiger (one player), 75% of the allies cannot make it off the beach. If the axis have another competent player running guard on the point, the allies are effectively doomed for that match.
Good idea, but I think 10 meters will be better.
Don’t want to see the scouts who hide behind and get points!
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Well its always easier to defend than attack, the Germans don’t need a Tiger to harvest kills, the PzIV is just as lethal, but equally its just the luck of the draw in terms of experienced players. Its a lot harder to hold the beach if the German players only have the initial AFVs like the Sdkfz234/2 or PzIII. If I spawn my infantry squads to try to hold the objective, many a time we get flanked and overrun because the other players don’t have the big cats and the US deploy a Jumbo which ignores everything frontally until it meets a big cat. (an whilst a good player can try to drill it through the MG port or turret ring with the lower class AFVs, most won’t survive the RNG dependent exchange)
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Yes I understand that, the tunnel vision thing, It’s not something that’s unique to enlisted it’s something I’ve experienced in many other games like this, and they get annoyed when they’re basically cock blocked by being killed on the way to the objective by a tank or a plane.
Tunisia is my favourite campaign largely because most of the maps appear to have been designed with infentry and tanks in mind, essentially they will support flanking because of their layout, and on those maps you can take a machine-gun team or I’ll take my radio team onto the flanks and get quite a few kills using them often as many as I would get if I was in a tank just by placing your weapon in the right spot.
Precisely, I haven’t really gotten suck into Tunisia just yet, I’m finishing off Berlin atm - focusing on KT (P) and IS-2, but it will be next.
From what I have played in it - only lv 11/15 Allies/Axis, this theater definitely demands much better inf tank coop. Also given that its sand everywhere, entrenching tools are an absolute god send as you can create cover if you get caught in the open. I just wish that there was an entrench command for the squad…
Feel free to hit up my post on Sprint Shovel suggestion. 2x dig speed using sprint. I’d really like to see that one.
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Increasing the XP/Point reward for capturing the point for infantry is one way of encouraging players to seek the objective i.e. 500 points per capture instead of 100.
For the defenders give them a bonus of 500 points for each uncaptured point at the end of the match, may be limit the bonus a defender gets if they been whoring lots of points in vehicles etc…
Frequent position changes and having hard cover nearby to interupt enemy’s LoS (because of markers) works quite good for my Tiger to avoid rockets and bombs.
Xp and score are different
Totally agree there are exceptions - vehicles have their uses and are absolutely integral to the game - I’m not knocking them as I love using them too. I can spend half a match in tank defending points - but if we’re not getting anywhere I get out. But I’m talking about the very common instances where they aren’t used to help.
Camping a tank covering an access route to a point - yeah absolutely. And I agree they can’t be in the thick of it - but if your team is struggling to get on the point, don’t get in a tank or plane.
That’s why a large part of my post was encouraging the objective.
Maybe even buff xp for vehicle kills in a vehicle while reducing infantry kill xp. If your in a tank or plane, go looking for the grey zone campers etc.
But the problem is the frequency of matches where nobody builds rallies or attacks a point is staggering - especially assault/conquest/confrontation where multiple rallies is a must! Maybe allow 1 rally per squad rather than one rally per player too (going to add this to my original post).
Also the frequency of lost matches I’m practically the only player with significant objective kills, captures or engineering score - even when it’s not a bot heavy match - and am outscored by someone just for having double the kills/assists.
Nice one, Tim, best post I have seen in a while, completely agree with all you have said 
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And often out of reach back on the grey area, if I may add.
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Honestly, a Sherman HEng the bunkers in Normandy is more useful than the Stuart drivers who try to get to the bunkers and… die while figuring out what they actually wanted there.
The same goes for th Obi-Wan tankers on the German side. The Anakins always fall at the beach.
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No, Like it or not a good tanker can make your life much easier. Same for a bomber.
If they want exp then they will try to win and if they don’t, then reduce it or not won’t change anything.
Sure they can give us more point
I would love to see that but I don’t think they want to add it, it’s not really that simple and people can actually span those mark for free assist but again I like the idea
You don’t really want this, if right now your team has 1 rally and your enemy has 4 in that case sure you can make let’s say 3 rally but your enemy can make 12.
The thing is you had to play with new players in your team or people that simply didn’t care to win vs an enemy team full of high level players that made rally points and focused on objectives.
I’m sure you get the point, what you need is not extra exp or things like that, you need a team of players like yourself that focus on objectives and rally and nothing can give you that but a real matchmaking system.
Sure they can punish bad tanker and give extra exp but at the end of the day you will be in this forum wondering why enemy still has X2 rally point or squad of 4 peoples focusing on the objective while your team can’t even defend a single objective for more than 2min.