Riders Class Progression

[QuentinSud]

Hello!
I know i’m not the 1st one to post his ideas about what should be done with the Rider class but here are my suggestions!
Basically it’s about adding more vehicles for the Riders in the tech tree:

• 1st vehicle option from tech tree: Sidecar armed with a light machinegun (7mm)
• 2nd vehicle option from tech tree: Four-wheel drive car armed with a light machinegun (7mm)
• 3rd vehicle option from tech tree: Armored-car armed a with light machinegun (7mm)
• 4th vehicle option from tech tree: “Tankette” armed with a heavy machinegun (12 mm)

The armored-cars and the tankettes should made the Riders more “tingling” but without turning them in a Tankers class; we should still feel totally free to abandon our tankette as much as we do now with the sidecar to play as an infantry squad when needed!

Sidecar
(Already in game for Germany and U.S), fast, small but without any protection and a limited front fire arc, can carry 2 men (3 for the old premium sidecars).

Four-wheel
Bigger and still no armor but have a 360° fire arc, can carry up to 4 men (probably the best option if you just want to rush a small infantry squad somewhere).

Armored-car
Wheeled, fully armored, 360° firing turret but with very light armor and still only armed with a machinegun, crew of 2 (a very mobile “bullets proof” bunker).

Tankette
Tracked, slightly better armored than the armored-car and armed with a deadly heavy machinegun (more punchy than the armored car but still inferior to a BR 1 tank).

Now for the vehicles themselves (by country):

USA

• The US sidecar is already in game!

• Willys Jeep (armed with a M1919A4 mg).

Spoiler

One 7.62mm machinegun, crew of 4 (driver/ gunner / passenger / passenger); drive juste like the existing “jeep” but with a machinegun.

• M3A1 Scout Car (armed with a M1919A4).

Spoiler

One 7.62mm machinegun, crew of 2 (driver / gunner); 4 wheeled armored car, machinegun shooting only at the front and with the fully open top will probably make the M3A1 the weakest of the “armored car”, maybe to compensate it could be armed with HMG or take more crew ?

-M 20 (armed with a M2HB).

Spoiler

One 12.7mm heavy machinegun, crew of 3 (driver / gunner / radio); a 6 wheeled M8 “Greyhound” but without turret, open topped, the HMG can fire on 360° ( honestly it could carry more people).

JAPAN

• Type 97 (armed with a Type 92 mg).

Spoiler

One 7.7mm machinegun, crew of 2 (driver / gunner); working like the already in game WLA and R 75 sidecars.

• Type 95 (armed with a Type 92 mg).

Spoiler

One 7.7mm machinegun, crew of 4 (driver/ gunner / passenger / passenger); drive juste like the existing “jeep” but with a machinegun.

• Type 94 (armed with a Type 97 mg).

Spoiler

One 6.5mm machinegun, crew of 2 (driver / gunner); tracked, fully armored and with a 360° rotating turret, this one play more like a little tank but with a mg as main gun.

• Type 92 (armed with a Type 92 hmg and a Type 97 mg).

Spoiler

One 13mm heavy machinegun and one 6.5mm machinegun, crew of 3 (driver / gunner / machinegunner); tracked tankette, the heavy machine gun is on the front firing only forward (giving it a StuG look), the turret have the mg.

USSR

• M-72 (armed with a DP-27 mg).

Spoiler

One 7.62mm machinegun, crew of 2 (driver / gunner); working like the already in game WLA and R 75 sidecars.

• GAZ-67 (armed with a DP-27 mg).

Spoiler

One 7.62mm machinegun, crew of 4 (driver/ gunner / passenger / passenger); drive juste like the existing “jeep” but with a machinegun.

• BA-64 (armed with a DT-29 mg).

Spoiler

One 7.62mm machinegun, crew of 2 (driver / gunner); Soviet 4 wheeled armored car with light armor, a 360° open-topped rotating turret and a mg as main gun.

• T-40 (armed with a DShK hmg and a DT-29 mg ).

Spoiler

One 12.7mm heavy machinegun and one 7.62mm machinegun, crew of 2 (driver / gunner); amphibious tankette with a hmg and a mg in a 360° rotating turret.

GERMANY

• The German sidecar is already in game!

• Kubelwagen (armed with a MG34 mg).

Spoiler

One 7.92mm machinegun, crew of 4 (driver/ gunner / passenger / passenger); drive juste like the existing “jeep” but with a machinegun.

• Sd.Kfz. 221 (armed with a MG34 mg).

Spoiler

One 7.92mm machinegun, crew of 2 (driver / gunner); German 4 wheeled armored car with light armor, a 360° open-topped rotating turret and a mg as main gun.

• Pz.I Ausf C (armed with a EW 141 semi-auto cannon, and a MG34 mg).

Spoiler

One 7.92mm semi-auto cannon and one 7.92mm machinegun, crew of 2 (driver / gunner); late version of the PzI, semi-auto canon and mg in a 360° rotating turret, main armement fires the same bullets as the Panzerbüchse .

[Naohmcete]

japan also have a kurogane (the jeep you shared) a version who was like a pickup in where they placed machine guns

[Yamoto4299]

They should be foldered under rider to take up less room on already full tech trees

[CapitanRastrero]

Great post! This is a great Idea l love everything except the inclusion of British and Italian options.

@QuentinSud

• Pz.I Ausf C (armed with a EW 141 semi-auto cannon, and a MG34 mg).

Spoiler

One 7.92mm semi-auto cannon and one 7.92mm machinegun, crew of 2 (driver / gunner); late version of the PzI, semi-auto canon and mg in a 360° rotating turret, main armement fires the same bullets as the Panzerbüchse .

Although small I dont believe this is actually a tankette. A better option would be to give the Italian L3/35 armed with twin 8mm MGs and a roof mounted 45mm Brixia Mortar.

This would offer a very unique armament and vehicle to the game.

[Kriegerfaust007-live]

great work making the rider class relevant in gameplay,

[S-G-44]

I really like this also it gives more funtions to this class and gives more reasons to have an AT gunner per squad

[Raf1307]

Why would you have a rider class that turns into a tanker ?

[Kriegerfaust007-live]

@QuentinSud

“Tankette”

even if they have tank in the name they are not
one a small crew 1-2 men
two a weak weapon 20mm or under
three weak armor able to killed by anti-tank guns, machineguns, mortars, heavier grenades,
no crew served turret with a cannon

[GeneralBrus]

actually, one thing that could be done - make those super light combat vehicle class able to capture objectives.

Br1 - bike

Br2 - jeep

Br3 - armored jeep

Br4 - armored light scout with 20mm

Br5 - full light tank

[QuentinSud]

@Naohmcete

japan also have a kurogane (the jeep you shared) a version who was like a pickup in where they placed machine guns

Kugorane pick-up is welcome if it allow to carry a gunner + passengers.

@Yamoto4299

They should be foldered under rider to take up less room on already full tech trees

Good idea.

@CapitanRastrero

Great post! This is a great Idea l love everything except the inclusion of British and Italian options.

Thank!
Actually … I had thought of the British and the Italians but since they are not “proper” factions in game right now i didn’t want to put too much stuff into the topic.
But:

U.K
Sidecar: BSA M20 / Four-wheel: Willys Jeep / Armored-car: Daimler Dingo / Tankette: Stuart V Recce

Italy
Sidecar: Moto Guzzi TriAlce / Four-wheel: Fiat TL37/ Armored-car: Autoblinda Lancia Lince / Tankette: L3/38

@Raf1307

Why would you have a rider class that turns into a tanker ?

No no, it’s not about turning them in Tanker.

Even the “strongest” of the Riders vehicle should feel weaker than the very first vehicle of the Tanker I, you have no armor piercing 20mm auto-gun and certainly no explosive shells. Hence the “tankettes”
(Well for the USA it’s kinda tricky since their first vehicle is the M13 GMC armed with two 12,7 HMG, but it’s an anti-aircraft gun too and you quicly unlock the M2A4 with a 37mm gun as a “proper tank”).

Also the main point of the rider class is that they are infantry squad too (Radioman / Engineer Assaulter / etc etc …) they can totally be effective on the battlefield without their vehicle.

Sidecar: very fast; small / no armor; only 2 men.
Jeep: 4 men; faster than APC / no armor; not an APC rally point.
Armored-car: protected; still fast / only 2 men; still weak armor.
Tankette: anti-infantry; protected / only 2 men ; still weak armor.

It will depend of your playstyle, if you rather play a fast small squad, a 2 men duo, want to rush a corner of the map to build a rally point, just play as a mobile bunker, or not play them at all.

@Kriegerfaust007

@QuentinSud

“Tankette”

even if they have tank in the name they are not
one a small crew 1-2 men
two a weak weapon 20mm or under
three weak armor able to killed by anti-tank guns, machineguns, mortars, heavier grenades,
no crew served turret with a cannon

Well it’s just a word i used to describe a tank actually weaker (both in protection and fire power) than the tank used by the “real” Tanker squads.

Call them IFV or MICV if you want

[CaptainBeel]

Thank you for your post.

I’ve thought of a similar idea before and fully support this. Great suggestions by the way for all the specific trees.

One of the complaints in the Open Letter had been how pointless riders are. I personally have been wanting more vehicles added in recognition of WWII being a mechanised war
(and also to assist in moving players around maps more easily instead of having to run all the way to Timbuktu and lose most of your squad in the process)

Your suggestion would fix both these problems.

I think riders going to jeeps, kubelwagens and so forth is good, and then maybe for APCs progress from trucks to halftracks and upgrades allow these to have small weapons like HMGs and maybe mortars. (Im thinking of the various M3 Halftracks for Americans)

The only suggestions Id say here are specific British and Italian vehicles as well (especially since I believe both should be separate trees).
For example I suggest the Australian Universal Carrier. Our Aussie one only had a single Vickers machine gun so would be different to the event squad UC.
For a truck we could have a Canadian Military Pattern truck (there are a few different styles to choose from).
Dingo armoured car, Humber, (British and Commonwealth had various armoured cars)

Id also if I may add on to this to suggest maybe as a part of upgrades one could have specific engineer vehicles and medic vehicles. The engineer one (probably a truck) replenishes engineer build points and allows for larger constructions like Bailey bridges. Medics get an ambulance which auto heals friendly soldiers within a certain radius.

[Raf1307]

Maybe its me, but you seem to confuse the concept of role.

The tanker role is there for all tanks, tankettes, armoured cars etc…
They created the driver role for the APCs - don’t really understand why, since a tanker role assigned to the squad would have served the same purpose, but whatever, their wasted dev effort.

So now you want to conflate the rider role, which was specifically created to “ride” on stuff into yet another flavour of the tanker role, so that we can have more vehicles like tankettes or armoured cars being driven by a “rider”

The rest of your post is just asking for a more fleshed out tech tree with a greater degree of options for the players, which is completely fine, but ultimately has nothing to do with the “rider” role.

I was waiting for someone to jump on the cavalry band wagon again, since at least the “rider” role can ride horses. Not that this is a bad thing, just completely impractical on the super small maps we have.

[Naohmcete]

from modeling and real life photo,as concept