The new magsize change from 71 to 73 is actually incorrect. At least with the mag that’s currently in game.
This is the magazine we have in game:
Which is the 71 rounder seen here:
The 73 rounder looks like this:
Meaning the only thing that was wrong with it was the description.
is there any source for this? i’ve seen this claim on IMFDB, but haven’t seen it anywhere else
Due to that sillyass extension feeding lip thing, its atleast in theory possible that it could have 73 rounds.
But I might be wrong here, the original m37? Drum used by winland was usually loaded with 69 - 70.
Regardless the capacity being 71, something something feeding reliability something spring something.
Quite sure soviets did the same.
Basically, when they were producing the PPD-40 (and later PPSh-41) mags they standardised it to 71 to match them. This is probably why the later ones are canted forward, because they just modified the PPD-40 drums.
Nope, as seen in the video, they used dummy “rounds” to fill up the feeding “tower”. So in the later ones they just added 2 more of those dummies compared to the earlier ones.
A stupid thing, however, is that although the one in game most likely uses a 71 rounder, the gun itself has an older marking on the fire selector:
ppd40 / ppsh41 doesnt have that silly ass tower in the mag.
You mean added dummy rounds to push last rounds into the gun ?
doesnt really make any sense IF the 73 configuarion worked ?
Which, ive got my doubts as in ppd40 / ppsh41 the gun itself was modified to accept 1:1 copy of M37 and the silly ass tower extension was ditched
Gee, it’s almost like that’s an easy thing to add on… They produced them at the same time, so why produce two very similar base mags when you could just make one and add the tower…?
Yes…
That’s a different thing, I don’t know why they decided to reduce it to 71 for the PPD-40, could be feeding issues, could be something else.
But they did reduce it from 73 to 71 in conjunction with the PPD-40 along with the canted magazine.
Why else would they change the stamping from 73 to 71…
It could’ve been for bureaucratic reasons, along with logistical concerns, since it’s easier to keep track of how much ammo you’re gonna need to issue and such, especially since the numbers are so close to each other. They’re not good reasons, but they’re reasons.
soviets were famous for fully functional mags and interchangeability
PPd34 → PPd34/38 with that silly ass tower mag → ppd40 with regular mag → ppsh41 regular mag
I might be wrong here, but I doubt there was any need to produce 34/38 as it got surpassed by ppd40.
As well as modifying 34/48 to accept regular mags at armory, ppd34/38 aint that much different to ppd40
Considering they had issues with mags even without that tower thingy.
perhaps because its 1:1 copy of m37 that is designed for 71 ?
Sure you can probably get even 90 rounds in there by cutting the feeding spring shorter but doubt that works very well.
Id again, say the differency here is that ppd38 has mag without a silly ass tower.
Doubt the logistics makes any differency, the gun will fire regardless will you load it with 10 rounds or 73 / 71 rounds
Right… that’s why the PPS-42 and PPS-43 have PPSh-41 compatible mags and the SVT family uses AVS-36 mags, oh wait…
And even if that was the case, what’s your point in this case…?
They were produced at the same time… watch the bloody video…! Or do you have any counters to the internet’s biggest guntist, the almighty gun Jesus himself…?
Ok? And?
What the hell are you on about… how the hell would a drum without the magwell adapter even fit?! There’s wood in the fucking way! I even showed you an example of a PPD-34/38 with a “71” stamped on the fire selector as opposed to “73”! Where the mag still has that adapter tower.
Again, what the hell are you on about…?!
These probably had as they were stick mags, drums had enormous issues with sovjets.
If I recall each ppsh left from factory with 2 or 3 drums that worked on that exact gun.
In 1938 and 1940, modifications were designated PPD-34/38 and PPD-40 respectively
Typo ppd40
Thats your reasoning, standardizing to 71 rather than 73 due to logistics.
Not mine.
Ignoring the point I see.
And?
I repeat: They were produced at the same time, as in, they were still producing PPD-34/38’s when they started producing the PPD-40 and a while after whilst they were shifting production away from the former model towards the latter model.
Watch. The. Fucking. Video! FFS!
Still:
I was just speculating as to why they decided to reduce it to 71… since I believe that I have sufficiently have demonstrated that they did that with the PPD-34/38… and I even explained as to why the mags look different…
What was your point ? By far most used magazine was the drum with which they had shitload of issues with.
Not exactly interchangeable or reliable is it ?
Which still doesnt make sense, regardless what your ian says.
Soviets had stopped manufacturing smg’s by 1939.
Late 1939? early 1940 Stalin demanded 24/7 smg production.
Early 1940 came ppd40 that was simplified & improved version of ppd34.
So regardless soviets are known for some seriously weird as fk decisions, producing “obsolete” version of the gun simultaneously with technically same but easier to manufacture version makes absolutely 0 fking sense.
Especiatly since modifying existing ppd34/38 to ppd40 standards wasnt exactly a impossible task to simpliest armories.
Probably because only reference to 73 drum is exactly the version with silly tower ?
Which most likely wasnt exactly reliable, since they had issues with even simplier drum version.
As a response to what you said here:
I said:
So let me spell it out for you:
the PPS magazines are not compatible with the PPSh-41, even though they both use 35 round stick mags. And the SVT family doesn’t use AVS-36 mags. Hence I was pointing out how what you said was bullshit.
Two options here, either you don’t understand sarcasm, or you selectively ignore sarcasm…
I have never once here argued about interchangeability or reliability… that’s all you…
TOOLING! THEY DIDN’T HAVE THE TOOLING FOR THE PPD-40! BUT THEY DID HAVE TOOLING FOR THE PPD-34/38! SO WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN YOU CAN’T PRODUCE THE NEW GUN IN ANY MEANINGFUL QUANTITIES?! YOU PRODUCE THE OBSOLETE GUN UNTIL YOU CAN SWITCH TO THE NEW GUN!
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST!!!
Sorry for that little outburst.
Timestamp 11:55 in the video:
Why would they change the fireselector stamp to 71 (it’s for full auto, they use the magsize to indicate it) if they didn’t reduce the magsize with it?! Wouldn’t this exemplar be undeniable proof that there were 71 round drumsm, with the tower, for the PPD-34/38?
Or is that just not a PPD-34/38?
Feel free to mention any other nation that had issues with magazines at same scale as ussr.
Yeah, they were famous for it.
PPD40 pretty much is simplified version of ppd-34/38.
So unless it required also simplified tools, your claim still doesnt exactly make any sense.
Quite sure the subject was 73 rounds drum that is infact quite rare.
I dont recall anyone questioning existence of 71.
Are you okay ?
You…:
Make up your mind…
That’s not how factory machining and tooling works… It’s has nothing to do with the complexity of the tools involved… it’s about MEASUREMENTS. For every change you need to adjust the tooling along with it, every fraction of a millimeter needs a whole new set of measurements, testing equipment standards etc.
That wasn’t the subject, but of course they were rare… they were made after Stalin ordered SMG’s to be mass produced but before the PPD-40 got off the ground…
Here’s an example of one that was made when 73 rounds was the standard:
Oh, really?! You sure you haven’t been questioning the entire premise of this thread all this time? As in the premise that the PPD-34/38 had both 73 and 71 rounders and that the canted one is the 71 rounder…
Ah yes, shame those old lathes and millers did not have dials.
Each machine was made to one and only task. You need to mill 2mm groove ? Well sucks to be you, this mill makes only 1.6mm grooves, you need to make new mill for those 2mm grooves.
Man, it must have been hard.
Or one could set 0 point and move on from there.
Once your task is done move the part to next.
But unfortunately, you always had to order a new machine for each task.
Well now that you ask, yes iam sure.
I infact only answered to that one fellow that was questioning the existence of 73 drum I assume.
Aka the 2 extra rounds are technically plausible due to silly ass feeding tower.
Also explained with my sophisticated guess why it was phased out.
He didn’t… he questioned the 71 rounder for the PPD-34/38… Basically he questioned the suggestion itself…
Which turned out to be false since those dummies were a thing…
Cool
Didnt your gun nerd ian say they added few more in there to make it 71 ? Which most likely still was unreliable.
Yes…?
Why are you so stuck on reliability? Nobody here is questioning the lack of reliability…
So, do I need to make coloring book now how the silly ass tower increases the capacity from 71 to 73 and decreases from 73 to 71 if you add more dummy rounds ?
Hmmm, perhaps because you have difficulties to understand why they went from 73 to 71 and eventually ditched the entire feeding tower ?
The dummies were there in order for the spring to be able to push all rounds out of the drum and into the gun, they need to fill up the tower.
…what? How the fuck did you come to that conclusion?! I never fucking questioned why they removed the tower… all I did was show that I’m unsure of why they’d standardize everything to 71, tower or not. Mostly because I don’t have a single source as to why, only that it is. And you’re not a source… all we can do is speculate
