And you know this because realism is so much popular in comparison to any kind of fantasy? I strongly wont believe this. I prefer games like The division over realism. I prefer skills and perks over realism. And im pretty sure fantasy community is bigger than any simulation. Game immersion is all about and it has nothing to do with being fair or competitive or newbie friendly.
Furthermore - each and every simulator (or realism game) is not newbie friendly. Games like squad / arma / flying sims / driving sims and so on - are not newbie friendly. People dont like newbies and newbies mostly deserve their own reservation for a harmless progression to actually let them enjoy and understand the game and at the same time let more exprienced players enjoy the game without newbies and have competition. O-o-or they just jump in and start learning like every other player in a hard way. They have to adapt. Not the game.
Then why was the much more realistic Battlefield 1 so much more popular than Battlefield V?
Also the game is advertised as realistic and should be treated as such
Generally that’s on the “get used to the gameplay” side rather than the “pls help this guy has 35% more health and 40%(or more) more DPS than me”
Its realistic, you have real guns, real maps, based on real history. And based doesnt means the game is going to be a simulator making everything possible to stay realistic while removing everything that doesnt fits to term, it means they take realistic things as foundament and on top of this develop a game, considering game design choices, audience, monetization, and of course our feedback.
People expecting the game to be new battlefield or hell let loose or postscriptum have their own image, however it doesnt means that the game is intended to be exactly like this.
To me, realistic means that you only add stuff that does not break realism,
but do not add anything that you could add when making a simulator but would interfere with smooth gameplay
(like vehicles breaking down, hour long repairs, weapons jamming, little/no markers, hour long construction of buildings, etc)
This game is true reaistic mostly becouse it features the real battle - Battle of Moscow in 1941. In all others FPS you cant see it so realistic. Its not like Canadian Relic who made drain Coh 2 with absloutely no idea what this all about. Here we have realistic landscapes, parts of uniform etc.
About topic, like was sad before - flinch can be reduced with perk. I understand this. Like many oother perks.
+35% health. Veteran knows how to save life even if he catches a bullet. You train a lot, you have a perfect vitality, good condition. You will survive after a gunshot. We have seen a lot of examples in many conflicts. Like The second Chechnia war.
Lieutenant Colonel Zhukov led the search and rescue operation to rescue the surrounded reconnaissance group. The group was saved but he was taken as a prisoner by militants.
When trying to break through from the Komsomolsk village in a night battle from March 19 to March 20, 2000, the militants, fearing stretch marks and booby traps, put the prisoner in front of them as a human shield. Caught in the crossfire, Zhukov received four severe bullet wounds - in both forearms, kneecap and chest. At the same time, he fell into a ditch with water, but, overpowering the pain, shouted: “Guys, here`s ours. Lieutenant Colonel Zhukov! … Help! ” The surviving officer was taken to the hospital in critical condition. He alive for today.
Recruits just came from training camps, unsuring their condition is excellent.
Meanwhile, “veterans” will have been eating military rations in battlefield conditions, worsening their condition. If it decreased damage to limbs or something I would somewhat get it as veterans tend to ignore non-vital shots, but one does not magically increase their resistance to bullets entirely.
Btw shouting for rescue etc is mostly a morale related thing, which is next to impossible to simulate in games.
Same thing with the less flinching perk. How the hell do you explain that a soldier just simply ignores a bullet and keeps charging? Morale, but even then, they would flinch as they would ingame rn without that perk.
Also the ammo perk. How can we carry double ammo without getting weighed down? Why is every soldier issued half of their historical ammo? Just so that the perk can bring it back up to historical ammounts?
And of course you got the Medkit efficiency perk. How do you explain that one? Thicker bandages?
No way, i dont want to be involved in this. Everything can be understandable one way or another. You sad once - your dream game is Normandy like it looks now exactly. Without upgrades, perks, etc. Its boring.
Okay on my take of flinch, I think in my opinion that it should stay, since this game encourages staying behind cover over running out on the field like a moron. Seeing that there is pain wobble and you die rather quickly in this game, flinching is one of the factors of getting shot at and while i do agree it gets annoying, removing flinch is like playing a call of duty match in a casual server especially since the most recent cod game has like no flinch at all and its mostly unrealistic over there. Same goes with accuracy since again staying in one place/behind cover in a crouch or prone position is better than running and gunning with a M1 Garand. This is my take on it and you might dispute it but im fine with it.
No, flinch is not a good thing because it removes your ability to fight back against SMGs because so long as they get a lucky hit even if you’re in cover you’re screwed over.
Realism=/=Fun
It makes SMGs even more powerful since you don’t flinch when hit by a bolt rifle, you just die or get downed.
Any votes for the super strong flinch is a vote for OP SMGs.
Also cover barely even works in this game since you can fire through any of the destroyable props on the map so just saying flinch will make people stay in cover is really silly. If that weren’t the fact, I wouldn’t disagree with the sentiment, but flinch when hit by low damage high ROF weapons just gives them more power over you when you’re armed with single shot bolt rifles.
^
Cover is nonexistent in enlisted since the obj zones are small as hell and rifles get fucked over by the no recoil smgs (MP41). Bolts good damage but there needs to be less flinch before the closed beta is over.
I actively enjoy games which have suppression mechanics more because it means that I don’t have to deal with people charging into Automatic fire and actually succeeding. That’s the real bullshit. And there are enough games out there that don’t have it, so play one of those if you really need another rambo 2 simulator. @8607374
This is why it’s needed, someone should not be able to run into direct fire and still shoot everyone in the room, then sit in the corner and heal.
Perks are experience for soldiers, as a soldier fights more (yes they die, but it’s the same principle as War Thunder), they gain more experience in battle and are able to fight more effectively in different ways, hence the perks, in fact, it’s like any development tree in an RPG and is a perfectly natural thing.
In reference to getting hit and not flinching as much, that is the single biggest thing that combat experience provides bar all the obvious ones, you are used to pain and hardship and keeping your cool and composure regardless of situation, so of course it is reduced.
Veteran knows how to save life even if he catches a bullet. You train a lot, you have a perfect vitality, good condition. You will survive after a gunshot. We have seen a lot of examples in many conflicts. Like The second Chechnia war. @Old_Decard
There is also a good example of this in The Lord of The Rings, Sean bean took several arrows to the chest and survived because he was an experienced fighter and was determined to save the lives of others, plus the adrenaline kept him going (yes this is a very edge case scenario, but it shows what the human body can do when it puts it’s mind to it) .
In reference again to the flinching, if you are holding a gun and get shot in an arm you are holding the gun with (generally either, you will flinch, factually unless you are very combat hardened to bear it / not notice, or simply do not notice, which is hard to not, it will generally cause some reaction, albeit not the kind of falling to the floor or being blown backwards you see (which doesn’t happen anyway).
It needs to be dialed back because all it does at the moment is make submachine guns overpowered. I watched a guy have a seizure earlier when I sprayed him at like 50m and he could do nothing to retaliate. It’s not fun at all to be on the receiving end of it at all either especially in 1v1 gunfights which is where you see it the most.
“This is why it’s needed, someone should not be able to run into direct fire and still shoot everyone in the room, then sit in the corner and heal.”
Funny thing is it makes it easier for the guy to do that if he keeps hitting everyone in the room by swinging about since they can’t retaliate. You have a perfect chance to blast a guy without flinch since you can just hipfire back, but with flinch as it is you don’t even get that.
It’s an anti-fun mechanic in Enlisted.
I want you to sit there and reply to me telling me you think stunlocking in an FPS is a fun mechanic.
No, because people will generally be in defensible positions in a building meaning the aggressor first has to enter to do what you described and someone will shoot them before being hit, it is far more likely regardless of situation for multiple guys to hit one first, than it is for a single guy to hit everyone else first, unless the aggressor does not flinch.
am not going read rest of thread, bad for health
but flinch very bad mechanic
after playing, it should be removed
the flinch is very severe and effectively means you dead if shot first in head-on engagement
i think what should base victor in a attack is one who is more accurate for all shots and can eliminate enemy first, rather than who gets hit first and has gun jerk 30 feet to side
it is what called anti-fun mechanic or perhaps low-skill mechanic as it give bad player best chance to win with every advantage (surprise/first hit/etc) because now enemy cannot fight back effectively
I have never had flinch stop me from clearing a house. The only time it’s actually hindered me is when fighting defensively lmao. So the complete opposite of what you are saying will happen. It just allows you to stunlock with an SMG which is honestly BS.
That’s the point. machine guns are overpowered because they should be overpowered in scenarios where you can reliably hit people, I.e. close quarters and Urban combat. Their superiority in those areas is the very reason they were used so heavily before Assault Rifles became a thing historically.
That’s one of those issues that’ll take care of itself once larger map sizes etc. become a thing around full release.
