So now the longer sustained fire is not something to consider.
Interesting.
People are just incompetent if they choose 42 over 43.
Anyway… All 3 weapons are clearly overperforming average BR2 smg. To the point they were used as justification to push further smg powercreep to BR2.
I really don’t care if they’re going to be put to BR3 or nerfed. But something needs to be done.
Me when I ignore the nuance
Yeah, but they arent though 
Maybe nothing needs to be done, other than removing the effect of body armour
Its really crazy how people can just ignore evidence provided directly to their faces.
I have to assume you all are flat-earthers and global warming deniers
Lmao, you just completely lost this debate.
No, it is you who are lost
I have provided in-depth statistics and analysis of the weapons, whilst you simply flounder around, avoiding the nuance of the balance discussion to make yourself sound intelligent by nit-picking and taking things out of their context. It is truly incredible.
I wonder, for how many times I will have to post empirical evidence that forum users will continue to deny it
Yeah, what in-depth statistics that proved the top meta BR2 SMGs, which are more similar to BR3 SMGs than BR2s, have you put out? 
Edit:
Time to kill comparison that specifically cherry picked only meta SMGs from every faciton? That really haven’t disproven anything.
How are meta weapons an “average”?
Not to mention time to kill is not even the whole context. Things like recoils, mag capacity, dmg drop offs, velocity, sights matters as well.
I wonder with what weapon is the easiest to consistently score headshots with.
If your stats are so indepth and you do care about nuances so much, I’m sure you’ll have it listed. 
But I guess the only way how to correctly play FPS game is to aim for the torsos, at least according to you.
Indeed in depth statistics af.
Plus average smg ≠ meta smg. Just for you to know.
If we’re going to pick the best Soviet SMGs, we should compare them to the best weapons of other factions? What?
Within Enlisted, yes, most of the time you should be aiming for the torso. Aiming for headshots is unreliable due to the inherent dispersion in the game. If you are referring to accuracy, the SMGs of other factions are more accurate than the PPS-43, PPS-42, and Uragan.
Since we’re so obsessed with the PPS-43 and Uragan going to BR3. How about we compare it to those weapons? Oh look, the PPS-43 is slaughtered by all of them. Except 1 thing. The cases where body armour exists 
The body armour is the problem, and not the Soviet SMG!!
Maybe we should make a million posts about putting the Beretta M38/42 into BR3 since this gun is clearly outperforming its BR2 competition /s
That’s not how the proper balance works .
Especially when you’re comparing it to the weapons that got powercrept to BR2 primarily because of their existence.
Half of the weapons you listed started out as BR3 weapons.
So yes, all BR2 Soviet TT smgs were always a problem. They were always over-performing. And they still compare to most BR3 smgs. Except for one - the Soviet BR3 smg. That literally has broken dispersion stats.
But whatever. You clearly don’t care about proper balance. All you care about is for the meta weapons to be on par. You completely neglect anything else.
Thats… exactly… how balance works?
Also, I’ve shown that the MP40 / Beretta M1 performance is still better than the PPS-43, same story as the Beretta M38/42. But when body armour is introduced, the story changes. Which is what I’ve said the whole time.
But I have shown that they are not? See, you literally just cant read or something. I have provided stats that literally show the opposite, and that body armour is the problem.
I actually put time into comparing the stats, and simulating the outcomes and performances of weapons. I have proposed changes to multiple different factions, in the forms of balances and nerfs.
I think I care a lot about proper balance actually. You on the other hand, continue to ignore literal infallible statistics in favour of your own agenda.
Also “half” of the weapons I listed started out as BR3 weapons, brought down to stop the terrifying OP Soviet guns? Which, the singular Beretta m38/42 and the M1A1 Thompson? Compared to the Beretta M1, MP40, Lanchester, Owen Mk1, and Type 2A? And how was the M1A1 Thompson supposed to be “balancing” the PPS-43? In the war where Soviets fight the USA?
I’m sorry, where? The PPS-43 falling behind every single BR3 SMG in time to kill by 0.06 - 0.08 of a second? Thats comparable? Buddy, by the looks of it, the MP40 is clearly good enough for BR3, since it has a time to kill of 0.130 seconds compared to the PPSh-41 having 0.127s.
TTK is kind of a moot point when they ALL have a TTK faster than human reaction. How often do we fire accurate shots at an opponent at the exact same time they fire at us? Bc that’s the only time those numbers make any difference whatsoever.
I think the PPS 42 sees use because the lower ROF makes for more controlled bursts. It’s easier, with the 42, to control how many rounds you spend per target and thus more efficient when taking down multiple enemies. Yeah, it’s a “skill issue” but the average player on a casual arcade shooter lacks skill. Doubly so in low BRs, where newer players live.
To the original point, I think the Uragan should have never been placed in the TT to begin with, but moving the PPS 43 to BR 3 would accomplish nothing. To your point, opposing BR 2 SMGs like the 38/42 and even the M1 Berettas are plenty strong enough to compete given the insane TTK of SMGs in this game. And the PPS 43 has no meaningful place in BR 3. Maybe the Uragan could go there (though I still vote for complete removal) and serve as a lower ROF option to the PPSh Box.
I think every SMG in the entire game over-performs, with very few exceptions that all exist in BR 1. There’s too much mobility in the game to allow for faster than reaction time TTK on automatic weapons. ESPECIALLY in low BR where most players are still bolting rounds into rifles.
If we believe this, then discussing the balance is pointless. We shouldn’t move any weapon from any BR and just play the game as is.
Honestly I’d rather see both pps’s turned into the slow firing smg’s they were in real life as they were equivalent to Russia’s MP40.
Would you buff the damage of it to match the MP40 too? Would you make it identical to the MP40? Should we just play Axis vs Axis? Did you know that if you want to use the MP40 - its right there in the Axis tech tree? You can even buy a “premium” version of it for the USSR faction.
There are other factors that matter. Like magazine size, reload time, and at high BRs the one shot chance that exists on select fire rifles and the Fedorov. So I wouldn’t completely throw balancing out the window. But the SMGs having that kind of TTK on the same battlefield as bolt action rifles is a problem.
I can’t help but wonder why we have more balance complaints now than we did in the Campaigns era…
When the focus was realism (at least in terms of what weapons face which and are present in what theater) nobody cared that the MP40 didn’t stack up against the PPSh 41, because it felt authentic and that was Enlisted’s identity.
Now idk what the Devs are supposed to do. One side yells “Balance!” and the other yells “Authentic WW2!” and the commitment has been to balance over the last couple of years with the results being what we have now. Oversaturation of automatic weapons that all have extreme TTK, even HEAVIER oversaturation spammable HE, and a massive learning curb for new players who won’t understand anything beyond that they lose 75%+ of their matches and get blown away by SMGs before they can even react.
And we wonder why the player count goes down
Which I also showed, the Beretta M38/42 is more powerful in almost every stat.
So either way, these people parading that the PPS-43 needs to go to BR3 are just wrong in multiple ways
Infact, lets throw the MP40 into the mix, where its superior stats also show 
I’m aware
You mean the medic squad with the ppSh-2’s or the legacy squad with the ppk-41’s (not on the TT)? Because if anything the 42’s ranged from 500-600 rpm while the 43’s was ranging from 500-700 rpm with only one source saying 719 rpm at the highest.
In short
Pps-42 can have base of around 530 and with it upgraded being upwards of 590/600. Then the 43 can have current rpm’s of the 42. Perhaps change the sound to match the ppk-41’s too
I was talkin about the Captured MP40 Guerrilla squad
Fair enough, I honestly forgot about that one lol
Yeah, exactly. Moving the 38/42 down was the best balancing move the devs could make. I don’t feel any major difference in it’s performance vs using the PPS 43 on the other side, and don’t see any reason the average Enlisted player would feel any differently.
I just think that we now have way too many, way too powerful, SMGs in low BR.
PPS 42, PPS 43, Obrez, PPSh Box
Lanchester, M1A1, M1928A1
MP 38, MP 40, Beretta M1, ZK 383, MP 35/I, Beretta M38/42
MP 28 (7.65mm), Type 2a, SIG 1920, Type 100 (late)
All see low BR matches. All have TTKs below human reaction time.
Move it all to BR 5
In your world, maybe.
But since you can’t tell difference between average performance of BR2 smgs / BR2 meta smgs. There’s not much to debate about.
Nor do I have time for that.
