it’s an expensive perk that the base riflemen can take and do you think that any of this topic or the complaint about the soviet body armor would exist without vitality
Soviet body armor is still a definite advantage against pistol-caliber automatics, even without the vitality perk.
if you are over 50m, assuming the damage does adjusts to distance and isn’t just preset for the 2 marked distance (wouldn’t be surprise if that was the case), but at that point it’s more so a call for dispersion than damage since 10% of the average of 6.8 is .68 making the total damage 6.12 so it goes from a 2 shot to a 2 shot to down within ideal SMG range …so the ONLY smg to be affected by solely the body armor is the obrz and technically unupgraded smgs but the lowest is is 5.7 and 10% of that is 5.13 so it would be more up to RNG.
never thought i would have to explain how percentiles work
Depends on how much you would nerf body armor,
Think about MGs, they dont have enough damage to kill with one shot against vitality, if you nerf vitality without touching body armor, you could potentially make Soviets uniquely able to survive MG hits.
A damage reduction that is unique to one faction will always be problematic.
if i could i would probably make a different modifier for it so for full powered rifle rounds it would be around 0-5% less damage instead, pistols would retain the current 10% while intermedate rounds (.30 carbine, 8mm kurz, 7.62x41/39) would be around 7.5% but vitality should be 12-15% increase instead of a 35% which i would like to see first
I’ll need to do some research, i feel like there are a couple of guns that could be effected differently for each % of reduction you reduce.
Also Currently SMGs are balanced so that Soviet need three hits to kill up close, while 9mm guns need two, without vitality this advantage is gone - which is technically gone already because of body armor, but you get the idea, playing with those stats will only cause problems that are difficult to predict.
So i think we should look at body armor from a different perspective.
We must first look at what it “should” be able to do, which is being able to shrugg off multiple SMG bullets without even taking any damage, while at the same time being completely useless against rifle rounds.
This exactly would be realistic, now tell me how do you balance that? This sounds already very chaotic for gameplay.
What could be done is reworking body armor to function like the japanese Premium paras with their gun shields, but instead it “somehow” gets modelled so it ONLY effects pistol caliber guns, and then can tank a few rounds before it breaks, which realistically speaking could be an entire magazine.
Remember, body armor works usually like tank armor, yes you can weaken a plate by hitting the same spot multiple times, but usually we are talking about “penetration” or “no penetration”.
Also last thing: nobody would complain about the secret damage reduction if it came also with movement speed penalties. Just add that sweet 10% reduced speed and people would already stop using it massively.
this is why i want vitality nerfed first to 15% at most since it will allow MGs to one shot no matter what because as it currently stands no MG can 1 shot with or without the armor
(fun fact: i got 15% since that will allow german MGs to 1 shot down through body armor)
why not do both my idea and this? give it the movement speed nerf with the nerf of vitality to 15%
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I just dont agree with the premise. Eveything in this game is inconsistent so thats not a real argument.
The only argument that works is whether the FG needs a boost, it does not. Its one of the best select fire rifles.
‘Playing the victim’ was refering to the fact German mains have a tendency to complain regardless of the fact they often have better weapons than other factions. Like complaining about Soviet even though Soviet weapons are worse in this catogory.
The reason I think body armour should be removed has little to do with that. I just think its dumb as hell
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A strawman’s argument based on your presumptions.
You clearly do not know what you’re talking about to say this. But I’ll defer you to the datamine spreadsheet Euthy has made, and the comparative grind necessary to obtain these weapons.
Yes.
Thank you for pointing that out. As you’ve described, it is still a definite advantage except to those with max-level SMGs, and more than sufficient against errant shots outside of 50m.
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I fully support this topic!
Okay, if the Soviets have an advantage in automatic rifles and fighters in general, then the Germans have an advantage in tanks, and if there is a squad from the time of the old progression, then these tanks can be used one after another, fighters (I-185 (M82) has good bombs, but has almost no rate of climb, unlike BF 109 k4), sniper STG has two different opponents in the form of allies and Soviets, so it’s generally more interesting to play for them.
As far as I’m concerned, considering the balance from this point of view, it’s +- fair, so wins or losses in matches always depend on the teams, whether they’re made up of backup players or noobs who got to the top tier due to weapons for a completed bid, prem squads or weapons from the batel pass.
which can be solved by nerfing vitality to 15% that way RNG well be less needed but you are complaining about dispersion than armor, speaking of vitality no Mgs can currently 1 shot to down through vitality, doesn’t matter what the nation is, while if we do the proposed 15% nerf to that perk that will mean the MG13 will be able to down though the armor
I support you supporting the topic
Are you sure the math checks out tho?
If such step would really be taken, we need to look not only at MGs - we would also need to check on those guns that sit between 13.5 dmg and 10 dmg.
If we nerf vitality from 35% to 15% the new max HP would then be 11.5 right? Im not home right now, so I can check for sure, but one gun that comes to my mind now would be the armaguerra, which should now reliably kill with one shot while being a BR2 gun - also potentially making it a two hit gun only vs Soviets? Again cant check the stats but I bet there are a couple of guns that would be influenced without us noticing.
There might always be some problems when you add multiple layers of damage reduction.
armaguerra would still be a 1 shot to the soviets that wear body armor (it has more damage than the any gunner weapon) you would be correct with the new max HP being 11.5 with the nerf in question which would mean that an upgraded LMG would 1 shot down soviet body since to that it will be 11.88 damage effective damage, though you would be right that it would change the dynamic a good bit though the only non LMGs that it would affect would be almost every single german semi auto, the winchester BP, feddy, the type ko (i would say bolt actions but i am unfamiliar with how that works with current 35% vitality)
i wouldn’t say layers since they wouldn’t stack
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You are wrong.
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as always it depends on range. body armor reduces ~40m effective range
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I appreciate you being the one that brings this to mind, of course damage drop of is very important, yet I would argue that most fights are at the 20-30 meter range, so having a semi auto that cant defend itself in close range wont make you happy that your gun turns into a 3 hit kill at 80m distance instead of 100m distance
What went wrong?
Just because you can’t kill the enemy with one shot?