Okinawa Proposal/Predictions

So, a Pacific campaign is almost guaranteed, and in my opinion, the two most likely options are Okinawa and Burma. I may come back with a thread like this for Burma at a later date, but today I’m going to propose what I think an Okinawa campaign may look like. There are a few historical inaccuracies for balance sake, but in a campaign featuring the US and Japan, that was a given. I’ll talk about each inaccuracy after the proposal itself. I’ve also added proposals for premium squads and the engineer constructs, but I won’t talk too much about those. Also, shoutout to @aizenns and his thread List of Japanese weapons for future campaigns - English speaking section / Mess Room - Enlisted for helping me with the Japanese weapons. Finally, most Japanese tanks don’t have coaxial machine guns, only hull MGs, so devs pls add hull mgs before Pacific.

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Historical inaccuracies

M8 Greyhound: The M8 was never at Okinawa, but it was the only thing in the US Arsenal that is remotely close to the Ha-Go, so it is included.

SBD-3 Dauntless: The Dauntless had been phased out for the Helldiver as the US Navy’s primary dive bomber by Okinawa, but starting out with the Helldiver seemed like a bad idea.

Most of the Axis SMGs: The Japanese rarely used SMGs anywhere, so it is hard to confirm if any of them were actually at Okinawa save for the Type 100, but the Japanese did field most of not all of the ones listed above at some point in the war, so they were included for balance sake.

Type Hei Rifle: There are conflicting reports about this gun at Okinawa, but since the Armeguerra is also 6.5mm and it is matched with the M1 Carbine, I thought it was an appropriate match as well.

Type 4 Rifle: Never left the home islands, but since the Americans need a Garand, the Japanese need a counter, and this is the best option. Just hope the devs don’t fuck up the reload like the Gewehr 41 because this gun also doesn’t have a removable mag, and is fed only by stripper clips.
Chi-Ha: Chi-Has on Okinawa were of the Chi-Ha Kai variant with the 47mm gun, but there wern’t really that many other options for Japanese tanks, and IMO, the Chi Ha would be a better choice than the Ka-Mi boat tank or something.

G4M1: I honestly have no idea if this plane was even in service around the time of Okinawa, but I needed to find a counter to the Avenger, and this was the best one I could find in War Thunder. Seeing as the devs just steal vehicle models from War Thunder, I figured this was the best bet.

Kurogane Type 95: Again, zero idea if this was at Okinawa, probably not, but I needed a counter to the Jeep and this was the best one I could find. Also, this is the car and not the motorbike, there are two vehicles that share the same name for some reason. (And you thought the Americans naming M1 was bad)

Type Hei LMG: This is probably the worse offender to historical accuracy, as it never left the prototype stage. Its a conversion of the Type Hei Rifle to a fully automatic weapon. The Japanese never actually used the name “Type Hei LMG”, instead calling it the “Experimental Ultra-Light Machine Gun”. It’s appearance in Okniawa is even more doubtful than the normal Type Hei Rifle, but seeing as Japan lacks any service full auto weapon, and its relation to the Type Hei Rifle is almost identical to that of the M1 carbine to the M2 carbine, it’s probably the best option for this, and its better than giving the Japanese captured AVSs or Federovs from Kalkhin Gol or something.

Type 3 Ho-Ni III: Not on Okinawa, but was used on other pacific campaigns like the Philippians and Burma. I included it because it was probably the best counter to the M18 Hellcat.

Type 24 Rifle/Gewher 98: This gun was probably not at Okinawa, but many of them were captured from the Chinese in the Chinese civil war. I know for a fact that some were used in Hong Kong, although I don’t know if they had a scope mounted. It was included because a) the Japanese don’t have a semi-auto sniper, as no Type 4 rifle ever had a mounting for a scope, and b) because the devs already have a model for this gun in the game, and they have deemed that it can match a semi-auto sniper. If that is correct or not, I don’t know, I never play sniper.

Nambu type 2 SMG/ Experimental Model 2 SMG (50 round box magazine): Prototype weapons, a few were allegedly captured in Burma, but hard to confirm, and probably not with the 50 round magazine. However, this is probably the best option for countering a 50 round Thompson.

8.1 cm Rocket Launcher: No idea if this thing saw service, but I needed a counter to the M9 and the Type 4 AT rocket launcher was already at level 20 to counter the M1 bazooka.

Type 3 Chi-Nu: Like the Type 4 Rifle, this never left the home island, but due to the lack of any real counter to a Sherman, I placed this tank as the Sherman’s counter.

Questions, bumps and other comments are appreciated.

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shouldn’t the Beretta M38/43 that Imperial Japanese get is the one with 20rds mag?

oh well, there’s already a lot of historical inaccuracies :v

The Japanese were only recorded using the M38/43, which only the 40 round version is in game. Its the same as with the MP 34, the Japanese only used the 50 round version, but in game we only have the 32 round version. I balanced for the versions in game, but if the devs make new models for the Japanese, then I suppose you could swap the places for both of them.

this post at sometimes is very DISHONOURABLE TO THE EMPEROR……………………
no extra balance is needed,the Japanese had inferior weapons compared to the americans accept it !!!
have you ever played rising storm 1 on the Japanese side then you will see the unbalance but even though though when they won it was totally under the skill of axis players . therefore,if they adjust capping times and reinforcements,it will only depend on the skill of axis players to play

Thats not how the devs work, they are going to do everything in their power to force symmetrical balance, and TBH, its not as bad as I thought it was going to be when I first started making this.

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In my opinion, they should not have Beretta M38…

To be honesty I doubt they had this weapon seriously. There are only English books or website that says IJN imported it, and in Japanese side there’s no any mentions.
For example, Japanese Navy’s handbook, such weapon is not listed in spite of it cover almost all naval ground weapons include some rare weapon like Type 4 double-barrel shotgun pistol or Type 4 semi-auto rifle. Japanese naval SMG listed on that document is only 4: Type 100, Type 100 special, SIG M1920 and S1-100.
https://www.digital.archives.go.jp/img/1724884

Without such unhistorical weapon, Japanese will be able to get enough number of historical SMGs.

More opinions about SMG

MP34 (o)

I think name should be S1-100 because they purchased it before Anschluss and purchased from Austrian.
In addition, specification of Japanese S1-100 is different to German MP34(o) so label different name is a good way to distinguish them.

Nambu Type 2 SMG

I guess you confusing 南部式機関短銃二号 (Nambu Type Machine Pistol Mark 2) and 試製二型機関短銃 (Experimental Model 2 Machine Pistol).
Former is ancestor of Type 100 SMG that build in 1935, and the latter is a gun that was lost the competition with Model 1 (ancestor of Type 100 which is succeeded Nambu Mk2)
Nambu Mk.2 (1935) had long 50 ammo box magazine. Model 2 (1937) had ordinally 30 ammo magazine.

Among these, at the late of war, Experimental Model 2 was redesigned and manufactured for tankers. The length of Type 100 reached 872 mm but length of Model 2 was only 648 mm and it was suitable for tankers.
It was called 試製二型機関短銃改良車載型 (Experimental Model 2 Machine Pistol, Improved Vehicle-Mounted Type), and captured at Battle of Okinawa.

Also, as far as I heard, experimental SMG which is captured at Burma was Experimental Model 3, a prototype of Type 100 SMG which is succeeded Experimental Model 1.

Counter for Thompson with 50 ammo magazine
Japanese naval SIG M1920 had 50-ammo magazine.

My suggestion for Japanese SMG for Okinawa

US JP
M3 SMG Type 100/Early
Browning Auto 5 S1-100 (7.63mm, 30 ammo)
Winchester M1895 Type 100/Special
M1 Thompson Type 100/Late
M1A1 Thompson Experimental Model 2 SMG, Improved Vehicle-Mounted Type
M21/28 Thompson w/50ammo magazine SIG M1920 (7.63mm, 50 ammo)

If you want more, there are numerous prototype SMGs

btw Japanese navy (not army) also had several shotguns. If you want to see assaulter weapon which is not a Type 100, perhaps it is good to implement Browning Auto-5. It was popular semi-auto shotgun in Japan.

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Anyway, it is very nice suggestion.
Lots of prototype / never used weapons are a problem, but this battle is very well known and many people will be interested in it so it will be good addition for Enlisted.

Some opinions

Handgun

S&W No.3

S&W No.3 is outdated weapon which is used during 19th century. When Imperial Japanese Army was established they purchased it, but in 1893 (Meiji 26), they developed new revolver, 26th Year Type handgun (二十六年式拳銃, aka Type 26 revolver).
Although, 26th year type is too old, but I think it is still better than S&W No.3.

Hamada Type 1 Pistol

It is called “Type 1” but it is just a commercially available pistol for officers.
If you want to implement officer’s pistol, I think Type 94 pistol (九四式拳銃, aka Type 94 Nambu pistol) is better than it. Different to Hamada Type 1, it was adopted by Japanese army, mass-produced, and used by not only officers but also tankers/pilots/paratroopers used it.

If you want to implement Hamada’s design anyway, perhaps Type 2 Pistol (二式拳銃) is good. It is modified variant of Hamada Type 1 for adopted as service pistol of Japanese army, and it become Japanese army’s final service pistol.

Mauser C96

Surely it is historical and I think it is not a problem, but perhaps some people dislike German C&P weapons for Japanese.

SMG

Please refer to previous reply

Rifle

Type 1 Rifle

If you want to implement paratrooper’s rifle, Type 2 Rifle seems better than it.
Experimental Type 1 Rifle have two problems:

  • It is based upon Type 38 Carbine. It means firepower is not a good.
  • It is non-adopted experimental weapon, so only few guns were manufactured. It will not be sent to battlefield.

In other hand, Type 2 Rifle was adopted and mass-produced. In total, 19,000 guns were manufactured during 1942-1944.

Type 24 Rifle / Gew98

For counter of Sniper M1 Garand, Experimental Automatic Rifle Ko or Hei is better. They are developed as sniper rifle and had scope mount. They can use sniper scope same as Type 99.

Motor

Type 98 50 mm motor

It is engineer’s Bangalore thrower, not infantry motor. Total weight is 98 kg and no trooper can lift alone.

Japanese personal-carried infantry motor is only two: 10th Year Type and Type 89 grenade dischargers.
At most, Type 99 Small Motor is possible, but it seems still too heavy (24.8 kg), and in history they disassebled it to two parts and two troops carried. Also, it is 81 mm so caliber seems a bit large.

Armored Vehicles

Type 95 Ha-Go

If possible, 37 mm Type 98 tank gun version is still better than it.
In WT’s data, penetration of 37 mm Type 94 is 34 mm at 10 m, but Type 98 is 47 mm at 10 m. It still inferior to M8LAC’s 37 mm M6 (pen: 79 mm at 10 m) but it will be able to penetrate the M8’s armor more stably.

Variants of Type 95 Ha-Go
  • Early model
    • 6.5 mm Type 91
    • 37 mm Type 94
  • Late model
    • 7.7 mm Type 97
    • 37 mm Type 94
  • Late model (with Type 98)
    • 7.7 mm Type 97
    • 37 mm Type 98

Type 89 I-Go

Machine gun and main gun is incorrect. It had 6.5 mm Type 91 vehicle-mounted light machine gun (九一式車載軽機関銃) and 57 mm Type 90 tank gun (九〇式五糎七戦車砲)

Aircraft

G4M1

As counter of single-engine torpedo bomber, I think single-engine torpedo bomber like B5N or B6N seem good. They can equip 2x 250 kg or 1x 800 kg.

A6M5 Hei

To be honesty, it cannot be counter of F4U-1D. Due to heavy arms and armor, mobility is significantly decreased.
Also, Type 3 No1 Mk28 Mod.1 bomb is anti-aircraft rocket and explosive is only 0.58 kg. In other hand, HVAR have 3.4 kg TNT.

For counter of F4U-1D, perhaps Ki-84 Ko is good. Its anti-ground weapon is two 250 kg bomb but it have excellent mobility and cannons.

Engineer constructs

Type 3 heavy machine gun

3rd Year Type machine gun is a bit old weapon: adopted 1914 (Taisho 3). In other hand, design of M1919A4 completed in 1936. Also, it using 6.5 mm Type 38 cartridge so firepower is inferior to it.

I think Type 92 heavy machine gun is suitable for game. It is the most popular Japanese HMG and it using 7.7mm Type 92 cartridge.

Type 1 37 mm anti-tank gun

It have two problems

  • It is very rare weapon. It was adopted in the end of 1943 and few guns were manufactured.
  • Specification is not enough. M3 37 mm can penetrate any Japanese tank, but Type 1 37 mm cannot pen most of US tanks.

For battle of Okinawa, Type 1 Mobile 47 mm gun (一式機動四七粍砲) is good. In the battle of Okinawa, it was the most popular anti-tank gun and destroyed lots of M4 Sherman. (It can penetrate side armor of it!)

Also I have a question why you choosed jeeps and halftracks for rider. I thought rider’s weapon is motorcycle with sidecar…

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I think riders could be extended to use light unarmored vehicles
It would help extend them to other campaigns where there wouldnt be good motorcycle options

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Many players use airplanes like this: they fly to the point, drop bombs, release missiles and kill themselves. Therefore, it is necessary to introduce aircraft carriers into the game, then Enlisted will play with new colors for suicidal pilots! They will feel like real kamikazes! :smirk:

Ah, I understand
By the way, did Americans didn’t have motorcycles? Early-era Japanese military motorcycle with sidecar was Harley-Davidson, so I thought US also had it…

Not sure, i was talking more generally

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alright, thanks

i cant describe howmuch i want to play as japanese.

Roughly, 九五式小型乗用車 (Type 95 Small Passenger Car) have three models.
Photo from: 九五式小型乗用車

Type 95 small passenger car, early model (3 seat)
Manufactured during 1937-38

Type 95 small passenger car, late model (4 seat)
Manufactured during 1939-43

Type 95 small passenger car, pickup model (2 seat)
Manufactured since 1944

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Japan needs a boat tank or complete unbalance will occur.

The Beretta M38 is the most iffy SMG, but there are more sources noting it’s use in Japanese hands than I could find noting the MkB 42 in German hands. It’s not perfect, but currently, its the best match for the Thompson IMO.

Fair enough, the thing is almost a black powder gun anyways. Although, there is a Colt Walker in the game, maybe I could give the Americans that instead? Just a thought.

Again, I’m going to trust you on this because my knowledge on Japanese handguns is abysmal.

Yeah, this would probably annoy people, but I really like the C96, so I put it on the list. I honestly don’t know if the devs will add it, but if they don’t, they can add the Nambu Type 94 like you said.

This was put in the premium squads because from what I read, it was a Carcano bolt for 6.5mm Arisaka, which I thought was intresting enough for a premium squad. Its counterpart the Marlin Model 1894 could only take pistol catrtiges like .45 colt or black powder rounds, so it should be fine.

I couldn’t find anything about a scope mount on a Type Hei, but if you say they exist, I trust you.

Yeah, the second tier mortars are crew served mortars. The M2 Mortar also comes in at about 20 kg. The Type 99 is an 81mm mortar, which I thought was a bit too big, but the Americans do have a counterpart in the M1 81mm mortar, so changing both out for the respective 81mm mortars is possible.

Yeah, the upgraded gun would probably help, but I don’t think it’s modeled in War Thunder, and this game just steals models from War Thunder, although if the dimensions of the gun are similar, they can probably get away with using the model with the Type 94, but the stats of the Type 98.

Oops, thats an error on my part, my bad.

I really wanted to include the B6N Model 11 because I love using it in War Thunder, but its bomb load seemed severely lacking, although maybe the 800 kg would match close enough? I honestly didn’t know, so I just picked the G4M1.

I couldn’t find any good sources about the rockets, so I was relying on preformance in War Thunder, and they seemed close enough against lightly armored targets, but I was unaware of that disparity. I’ll rework the fighters so that the Army fighters are the Figher IIs, and make the Ki-84 the level 40 plane.

I’ll trust you on this one too, because I honestly had no idea what I was doing for Japanese engineer constructs, I just wanted to get the US stuff down

I’ll also trust you on this one, and maybe I’ll also replace the US AT gun with the 6 pounder. The US main AT gun at the time was the 76mm, but we can’t really add that now can we.

For the riders, I figured it was better to give the riders jeeps and halftracks, as Okinawa’s terrain really wouldn’t lend itself to motorbikes, although I suppose it would offer more cover than in Tunisia.
The Kurogane Type 95 4 seater small passenger car seemed close enough to the Jeep. If there is some massive disparity, let me know.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions.

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Here is the Mk II proposal




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I am sorry, I misunderstood it…
It is Type I Rifle(イ式小銃), not Type 1 Rifle. “I” (“Yi”) is a initial of Italy, not a number.

That’s sounds good, 6 pounder is useful to attack not only tanks but also troops.

By the way, I’m not sure it is suitable but Japanese also had 75 mm Type 90 field gun. It’s not AT gun but it was most useful anti-tank weapon and mounted on Ho-Ni I/III and Chi-Nu.

I see, surely in Okinawa they will be useful. Especially APC can be very good fire support vehicle and large shield for troops.
However, in my personal opinion jeeps are often placed on battlefields so I thought is is not worth for squad weapon. (Although if such vehicles could equip weapon, I think it is interesting )

Ah, that makes sense, I’m just really blind and can’t read English letters apparently.

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Don’t worry, it seems very misleading. if I didn’t know it, I would make same mistake…