My Opinion on the State of CBT

As we are moving into the OBT soon, I’d like to voice my current opinions and concerns regarding the state of Enlisted as of right now and why I think it should take another quick re-evaluation of itself before OBT arrives.
This is an open letter to the developers.
(This was written over several days and may be a bit of a rant, but just a bit)

  • Monetization and premium squads

Firstly, the new gold monetization system. As I’ve had a chance to personally try it out, I don’t have too many concerns about it.
Regardless of what kind of problems anyone has with this new system, it is very much the same as war thunder’s monetization, where one can pay to skip the grind.
Some players have raised concerns over being able to buy your way to the top where gear and soldiers perform better, but the amount of money that would take would be quite ridiculous, and while there will definitely be those who will afford it, I’m not entirely sure they would be willing to.

The amount of gold per level seems to be cumulative, so going from start to end just on gold alone should easily go into the hundreds of euros spent on a single campaign.
It may not seem like it costs a lot at a first glance, but the higher level you are, the higher the price it is to jump to the next level.
In sharp contrast to this, the current premium squads can achieve that state of better guns, better soldiers and better perks for a mere 30 euros.
Therefore, premiums are undermining the gold system.

I understand the founders packs are going away, but from my understanding the last 2 premium squads will stay, which is a problem. Even if that’s not the case, due to the nature of the game, new premiums will surely be available eventually, and so I hope that any new premiums in the future will not start out with maximum stats and overpowered unique weapons.
This is a fundamental imbalance otherwise, where people just have more incentive to buy premiums and won’t bother with the gold system at all. It may as well not be there.

In war thunder, this same system works out for the majority of early tiers, because early premiums aren’t too expensive or overpowered; and even in arcade, they are no longer usable in that game once they die, unlike in enlisted where premium squads can eventually be used again in the same game if you die a few more times.
It works better there because of the nature of their respawn system compared to here, but it is still not an ideal monetization system, as seen at endgame tiers in war thunder, the system breaks in the same manner.
However the gold system alone is not as bad as people make it out to be. You could have came up with something better, but I understand your budget may constrain and force you to prioritize getting more funds as soon as possible, in which case this system works.

Regardless, the premiums are a problem to the gold system, and I believe that premium squads here should be limited to having unique or quirky prototype weapons, instead of better variants of what everyone else can unlock in the vanilla game.

Furthermore (and this ties into my next point) the respawn system is especially at fault for making the premium squads stronger than they should be, as they are infinitely re-usable within a battle.

Infinite respawn is not a solution. I’m guessing it’s here because the maps are small and combat only happens over a single small front that is cramped and gets everyone killed very fast.
Yes, infinite respawns does patch up this problem, but it also causes other problems of its own, because it makes people more likely to not care about dying and gives their premium squads too much power.
Which leads us to:

  • Maps size and game balance

If you make the maps more open, increase the number of players inside each game, and limit the respawns to only the squads you bring with you, then premiums will not be as broken.
At the moment players don’t seem to have any regard for their safety. They charge in, kill as many as possible, die and then respawn over and over.
This is far too arcade for a realistic game; and even war thunder chose not to allow infinite respawns in their arcade game mode.

And it’s a shame because I feel like you see our pleas for larger maps, but you may be misinterpreting what we really want.
Whenever we ask for larger maps, we don’t ask for a huge map where we’re all restricted to one quarter of it by an invisible damage wall that just moves along with capture points.
The entire map should be open and the objectives should be spread out over the size of the map in an asymmetrical pattern.
I believe the invisible wall serves as yet another means to patch up a problem that shouldn’t even be there to begin with; namely spawn campers. But spawn campers wouldn’t be a problem on a larger map, especially with limited respawns.
If you’re still that worried about spawn campers, then make the area around the spawn points kill anyone who approaches it, but please don’t box us in to just slices of a map when we know the maps we play on are actually the same huge map.
Planes spawn camping are arguably a worse issue right now.

  • Team play and cooperation

And speaking about planes; currently there is very little reason to cooperate with each other or even play strategically. For all of its realism, enlisted is reduced to an arcade endless gore fest or tug of war.
One good example of very poor coordination are the air planes.
There should be an incentive for players to mark targets for those in air planes. I barely ever see it happen; save for a handful of good people, the vast majority of people are entirely absorbed in rushing in and getting kills, and whoever is in the air plane doesn’t see anything and is left to do guess work, which is what I believe often prompts one to go spawn camping in a plane. Soldiers in WW2 had radios you know; air strikes were coordinated.
There should be an extra small reward if a target you marked gets killed by a friendly air plane, and there should be tips in the main menu or on loading screens reminding people that they can and should do that.

This is especially important as even enemy gun fire is pretty much invisible inside the air plane, with exception of tanks shooting, which are anyways fast moving armored targets.
Without proper render distance and no markers of any kind, using a bomber effectively boils down to lucky guesses. Planes would be plenty balanced already with just the need to fly to a resupply point.

  • The interface controls in battle

In my honest opinion, this needs major reworking. While I am used with it by now, I’ve found it very difficult to adjust to and very counter-intuitive at first.

For the guns, it breaks free from established standards for seemingly no reason. There are gaps in the numbers and their order makes no sense.
I’d expect either 1 and 2 to be my main weapons and 3 the pistol, 4 the knife, and 5 the grenade; or alternatively 1 the knife, 2 the pistol, 3 and 4 the main weapons and 5 the grenade.
Either one of these control schemes would work; instead I feel like the current interface forces me to rely on the mouse wheel more.
Except the mouse wheel doesn’t seem to cycle between the entire inventory, only the main guns, but will irronically cycle to the knife too, making it very hard to switch to the weapon or item you want exactly when you need it.

For planes, W and S need to adjust throttle, instead of moving you up and down, which is just unnecessary when we have mouse controls to begin with. Throttle adjustment is very important for air players, as we don’t want to be stuck in WEP all the time. Sometimes I need to stall, and sometimes I may even need to reduce the noise I make so I can hear if there’s any enemy airplane around me.
Also, I believe flaps should cycle on the same key instead of having to give it multiple keys for up and down, though this is something I can live with and it’s just my personal preference.

  • Tank shells

Lastly, a more miscellaneous issue I have is how useless HE shells are against infantry soldiers at the moment.
They’re obviously unfit for destroying other tanks, as they lack the penetration required, yet we’re forced to take them into battle with us. They serve virtually no purpose as they are right now.
They were designed to explode on impact instead of over-penetrate, and they would fragment on explosion causing damage to soft targets.
Directly from wikipedia: "The fuse detonates the bursting charge which shatters the case and scatters hot, sharp case pieces (fragments, splinters) at high velocity. Most of the damage to soft targets, such as unprotected personnel, is caused by shell pieces rather than by the blast.

Ending notes

To the developers:
Despite the recent controversies, and some problems that have been brought up many times before but haven’t been fixed to date, I am still very much enjoying this game and see a lot of potential in its future.
I can tell this studio is doing what they can to make the game enjoyable for everyone.
What we get may not always be what the community wants, but we also don’t know about the potential time constraints, engine limitations, financial situation of the game or any other issue you may be facing.
I sincerely hope this game will succeed.

And to the active people on this forum:
In the short few months since I’ve joined this community I’ve came to enjoy logging on daily to participate in the conversations ongoing here or just to see and read your fascinating ideas.
We may not always agree with each other, but I see myself here to stay for a long while, and with a potential influx of new players just around the corner, I’d like to say that I’d very much like it if you would all remain a part of this community too and try to change it for the better, regardless of which way the game may go in the near future.

(I’d be very sad to log in knowing I’ll never see a poll by @73507743 again, or to go on a random thread and know there isn’t a 97% chance that @5762269 replied before I even knew the thread existed)

There are too many of you to openly list, but no matter which way you may all be going, your active support in this community so far has made it great and enjoyable.
Thank you!

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True

Honestly only a few of the premium weapons are better than their non-premium counterparts. Their dominance is mostly attributable to their fully upgraded nature, and how busted fully upgraded gear is.
And yes, I did mention “a few”:

  • M2 Hyde (lower recoil, higher fire rate) - can be fixed with increased recoil, or reduced damage
  • MP41 (lower recoil) - can be fixed by giving same recoil as MP40, or slightly less recoil in return for more weight.
  • MG30 (lower recoil, higher fire rate) - can be fixed by giving (much?) more recoil

The rest are honestly fine when compared to the best guns in their weapon class, for that campaign:

  • The MP28(ex.mag.) is weaker than the MP40.
  • The PPK is weaker than both the MP40 (which it can be better compared to) and PPD(d).
  • The Chauchat is weaker than the Madsen.
    PPK and Chauchat are unique, though, which makes then very nice premium weapons. MP28 is a bit boring as it is basically in between MP38(ö) and MP40 in terms of stats.

Agreed

The big issue is that certain game-affecting bonuses are only obtainable through the gold system. Being able to bring more squads into battle offers more flexibility, which in turns increases your potential winrate because you can adapt better to a situation than non-paying players.

To me, the progression system, which can be summed up by “play more = be stronger”, is flawed at the core: Players that are maxed out will have a significant advantage over players that are not. As a result, players that are not maxed out on progression will be frustrated and will possibly leave the game. Because of this, less players will reach the maxed out state of progression, further strengthening this negative feedback loop.

Unless they add them as free slots to take along, then premium players get more respawns, similar to how they have more slots now.

A lot of this plays into the bolt action vs fully automatic weapons balance argument as well. Longer ranges = less oppressive automatic weapons. You notice this with Normandy having less issues with OP SMGs/LMGs than Moscow, as the average combat distances are longer in Normandy.

Do keep in mind that players will cheese everything there is to cheese. If you get rewards for marking, players will start spamming the hell out of the target marker.

Planes copied the default controls for planes from War Thunder. Except they replaced one of the most-used utility buttons, namely FLAPS, with the button to leave the airplane. Cue random airplane suicides!

That aside,
The controls are mostly fine if you are used to them. My only real issue is misbinding of certain buttons, as mentioned, alongside the default 65% throttle and the inability to just hold shift to throttle up to 110% forcing you to spam the button.

Only the 75/76mm HE and Russian 45mm HE are somewhat effective, as they have MUCH more filler than the 37mm HE shells, or even the German 50mm HE shell (Russian 45 was really stuffed with HE). Increasing the effectiveness of HE per gram would affect grenades too, though, by how it looks currently. So unless they nerf the filler on grenades, the devs seem to be unable/unwilling to buff HE.

To be perfectly honest, I am at my limit when it comes to staying/leaving the game. The major issues have been ignored for too long, or are too deeply embedded into the core design of the game, which the devs seem to be unwilling to change.

I was summoned?

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Generally I agree but I have to oppose the idea of “one squad, one spawn”.
I hate this mechanic with all of my heart in WT and wargaming games, and in my opinion it will be only worse in infantry game.
In WT it may work, but in enlisted you may spawn in your favourite squad and get massacred by an enemy tank, without even a chance to react. Where is fun here?

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Buying pretty much an entire game would be possible to tolerate (don´t get me wrong, I still hate idea of completely skipping grind), if it wouldn´t give you huge advantage, just unlock new types of toys you can play with.
So as you said, for the sheer amount of golf you have to spend on unlocking campaign level, player would have to be really crazy or wealthy to actually buy all of it.
However, when it comes to buying progress on each division, it is microtransaction that straight up gives a gameplay advantage and is not really just a convenience. Another thing that is just bad on gold system are lootboxes (monetizing turned them into real gambling).
As for premium squads, there are few with superior weapons, but their main advantage comes from their perks, pre-leveled state and squad composition. Believe it or not, when CBT first launched PPK squad was real cancer, and still is, thanks to the perks and squad´s universality.

As for planes and tank HE, I could write whole essay on what is wrong and how to fix it, but I will cut it short and just say that we need better render distance for our blind pilots, and at least old HE shells should be replaced to be effective.

When it comes to teamwork, I believe that when “battle achievements” release with OBT (I think it should be giving bonus exp?), it may force people into cooperating a bit more simply because it will profit them.

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A good writeup, but I think one spawn per squad is a terrible idea.

Games usually last upwards of 20 minutes, and you can easily lose all your squads in less than 10 - particularly if you are attacking in the offence/defence mode. You can also be blown up by grenades or tanks when you’re trying to play the objective, or killed by planes seconds after leaving your spawn.

It might be interesting in a specific round-based game mode, but not the current modes where unless you camp super hard and play EXTREMELY cautiously, including avoiding fighting over objectives, you will lose all your squads just through playing the game - even if you are skilled.

I usually die more in my best games, and the games in which I win, because it means I’m fighting for objectives. Limited spawns encourages passive gameplay.

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Yes, I forgot to touch upon the premium membership they now have. The increase in squad slots by having membership is directly P2W and should be removed.

I agree to some extent, though I believe that with larger maps and limited respawns this may not be such a big problem anymore. At the moment aside from MG squads and assaulter squads, which are unlocked fairly early, I wouldn’t say that most of the things that you unlock down the tree is objectively better; merely more specialized in dealing with specific situations.

Though some of the perks like more vitality should definitely be removed as it does contribute to play more = be stronger mechanic.

Imo they should limit us to 4 or 5 respawns, and premium players shouldn’t have more respawns.

I’m very sad to hear that, though of course you should always do what’s best for yourself first and foremost.
Though I always appreciate just how much dedication and commitment you pour into these forums on a daily basis.

This time yes lol, I meant in general; usually it’s pretty easy to find you on any thread; but I respect that, like I mentioned above.

HE across the board is actually worthless, even 76mm and 75mm unless you hit people in the chest with the shell. Don’t oversell it please. HE needs a massive buff to be even worth carrying.
The 20mm tanks need it removed entirely.

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@VoyoMayPL @ReachForTheSky

With the current cramped maps I agree, though on larger maps I feel like getting slaughtered prematurely would be on you for being careless.
Though perhaps if we get a higher respawn cap but still cap it may work? For instance, say a maximum of 20 respawns per player per game? 5 Respawns per squad.

It’s still just my opinion, but I think death should be punished in one way or another to encourage players to be more careful, even if not by limiting respawns, as right now a lot of people prefer getting large amount of kills and you see something like 90 kills and 20 deaths while capture points get left ignored because that swarm of bots outside of cover is a juicier target.

In lone fighters, which is what I play most often, I usually average 20-30 kills and 4 deaths over the course of the game while capturing points. It’s a rather weak number of kills, but I do survive quite often; tanks are easy to get around due to their poor visibility, and I tend to make my way to objectives through houses instead of the open field.

Of course, I understand my playstyle is my own and may not be for everyone, but I believe fear of death in some manner would contribute to lowering the effectiveness of overpowered squads and create a sense of momentum over the battlefield that could benefit the game.

Most soldiers in real life were aware being reckless could lead to death after all, and I think killing somebody should feel like you’ve made a contribution, rather than just sending them back to the spawn point in another squad.
This would also be to avoid the battles being just tug of wars where no one really loses anything and just sends each other back to camp. Just my thoughts.

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Oh in lone fighters it’s a bit different, I’m talking about Squads.

I still prefer unlimited spawns so I have the choice to play as long as I want with what I want. Also speeds up the grind.

Again not against it in a specific mode, but I’d never want to see it in the current iteration of Squads.

As for sense of momentum, I would think fear of death would reduce that, not increase it. I don’t want to waste my sniper or single SMG so I’d definitely be less of a team player and try to stretch out my life as long as possible.

And on the point of OP squads, they’re still OP in a no spawn game because everyone only gets one spawn. You get less usage out of your OP squad, but everyone else gets less usage out of their squads.

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Do devs care about our opinions?

Fair points, I should’ve mentioned I’m mostly a lone fighters player rather than squads player, so my experience with the game and by extension suggestions are biased towards lone fighters first and foremost.

Personally I believe it would grant a sense of momentum that doesn’t even exist at the moment. With the way the game currently works it might reduce teamwork to some extent, but that teamwork is already suffering as it is.

What I mean by momentum is specifically related to powerful players that represent a boon to their side. As it stands right now, experienced players will absolutely dominate over newer players, because the system, as Tcat puts it, is “play more = be stronger”
And this doesn’t resume just to better perks and better gear, but also to one’s personal knowledge of the maps, equipment and general gameplay mechanics.

After a certain point during playing, one may reach a point where they can just dominate battles singlehandedly.

And managing to overpower such a veteran will just lead to them returning with another squad and resume business as usual. With limited respawns that player would be closer to being knocked out of the game and the players that were once getting dominated may now have a chance to turn things around.
As it stands, killing a veteran right now will do nothing, as there’s no momentum at all so you’re not stopping the unstoppable force, you’re merely delaying it.

I see and acknowledge your point but I think there’s two possibilities here rather than one.
From my point of view, I think it might make one collaborate more as you’re stronger in numbers and stronger when working together. Going off alone is more likely to die and thus more likely to lose your unique squad.
And saving a dying ally would become even more important to some people, knowing that they could potentially lose somebody that could be important to winning the battle.

Agreed, but sadly the only other option would be to make overpowered squads not overpowered, which I doubt they would, since most people expect some sort of advantage out of paying, else it wouldn’t be worth spending money.
I don’t agree with it, but I don’t think overpowered premiums will go anywhere in the future.

Still, overpowered squads are not impossible to kill, even in the hands of a good player, you just need to get the upper hand on them; but that carries no weight at the moment as they can keep coming back with the same squad again.

Even if we all get less usage out of our squads, it makes it more possible for people to work together to eliminate bigger threats and at the very least give people a means to eliminate threats in the first place.
In an arcade mode I wouldn’t mind infinite spawns, but we get limited by realism in every other regard right now, except somehow our soldiers are vampires that will raise from the dead every midnight.

They’ve implemented changes that we’ve asked for in the past, multiple times even.
So I think they care to some extent, but they obviously wouldn’t overwrite their studio’s development plan solely with player input.

Has there ever been any game in history were the devs listened to everything the players said?

Why so many people just want big maps?

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A lot of the small maps get repetitive really quickly because of how oppressive SMG and LMG squads can be in them. It also kills diversity because of said SMG and LMG squads. It also limits the effectiveness of vehicles, which makes the tank/plane mains sad.

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I think sometimes it depends on the mode. We definitely need a game mode selector.

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That is true if we take domination mode into the consideration (and depending on map design, also for assault mode… Yes @5762269, I can finally say that I got few damn assault modes…).
However, domination is just too unfit for squads gameplay, so it will necessarily turn into SMG based meatgrinder.
Larger maps would encourage wiser cap distribution and perhaps give more space to the supporting non-full auto classes while still retaining usability of assaulters etc. That is something, no gamemode selector is able to fix.

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we have multiple major bugs hampering gameplay such as health perks… those have not ever touched also multiple threads on p2w squads …again another set of those are yet released.

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LMG squads are going to dominate even more in open maps. At least for the players that realize they can outrange rifles if they’re bipoded.

Rockets are of course a huge problem that needs to be addressed.
I just ran into ghostofishmael in a battle and we just kept getting repeatedly suicide-rocketed by BF-110s.
We had a good P-38 up and build some AA guns but it didn’t matter because it was doing suicide-attacks anyway and would crash into the objective whether or not we shot it.

LMG squads are going to dominate even more in open maps. At least for the players that realize they can outrange rifles if they’re bipoded.

Rockets are of course a huge problem that needs to be addressed.
I just ran into ghostofishmael in a battle and we just kept getting repeatedly suicide-rocketed by BF-110s.
We had a good P-38 up and build some AA guns but it didn’t matter because it was doing suicide-attacks anyway and would crash into the objective after killing everyone on it whether or not we shot it.

Actual good coordinated effort between 4 of us in chat didn’t help for shit. The enemy team only ever gained ground from suicide-bombing but ended up winning because they did it so frequently.

It was le bri invasion.

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And this is part of the reason why I think limiting available respawns or introducing some kind of mechanics that make players afraid of dying will help a lot.
If the pilot knew he had a limited number of respawns with the plane, he’d likely not suicide bomb.

It’s just a meat grinder right now, which is what a lot of us wanted to prevent this game from becoming.

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