My desertion penalty fix

[Luvs2spooge]

Since I am reading several posts on the new penalties, which IMOP are not going to work and I think we’re seeing that they aren’t. Fix the “WHY” people desert first before you start penalizing.

So, IMOP most people desert because of one main reason, they’re being Seal clubbed. Some desert early because they don’t want to endure it, some endure till just before the end and quit, thus saving themselves from the rank and win loss percentage loss, while still gathering up their experience a TT research. We can’t stop every match from becoming a Seal clubbing, however I think we can cut it down some by giving players a choice of either playing in solo matches only, or skip the option and play as they normally are now. This way, we don’t have groups beating up on solo players unless the solo player chose to play that mode. I always play solo, and I would prefer to only play against solo players, this way I know both sides are even and no one is coordinating.

My penalties? Simple, just give the deserter nothing, zero, nada, no matter if he plays 3 seconds or 30 minutes. The moment he chooses to desert, he gets no silver, experience points or TT research progress. There won’t be any rank or win loss percentage to save, so there is less incentive for him to desert, and the ones who simply refuse to get their butt kicked on occasion will desert anyway.

So, this is my game option I would propose, the choose solo match only for those of you who don’t want to be in matches playing with or against groups. This would effect no one who doesn’t care and just wants to play, simply ignore the choose solo option and you will be in the same matches you’ve always been in, against other solo players and against groups as well. Choose solo only, and everyone on both sides are solo players.

[CptFath13]

if they can make me play moscow only map, i will never ever desert

[Admiral_Wenli]

Only issue with 100% reward loss I see is those who have connection issues, or live in countries where connection can very suddenly disappear.

[Luvs2spooge]

I live in the Philippines so I know all about unstable power and internet connection. The only time I had outages in the US were maybe during a severe Thunderstorm or a Hurricane .

[GetOut0fMyWay]

@Luvs2spooge

So, IMOP most people desert because of one main reason, they’re being Seal clubbed

But these players also have to realize why many of them get farmed. In many cases it’s a “skill-issue”:

1. People won’t understand the MM and the BR system (not only new players)
   → trying to grind e.g. their Pz. II C in high BR and blaming the game that they have to face IS-2 (1944)
   → new players buying one high BR premium squad while the rest is BR I

2. Players don’t know the importance of RallyPoints / Spawntrucks after years and even refuse to build one if you asking + telling them nicely that they really can be the difference between victory / defeat but on the other hand they are wondering / crying why they loose to often

3. Players seeing an enemy with a tag from a good “clan” (even 1 is enough that they start deserting)

Of course the current MM is not perfect and DF / Gaijin needs to optimize it. However players should know even the game basics which are pretty simple compared to other games. If they refuse to do so … well then they shouldn’t complain and accept their fate

[Luvs2spooge]

I agree, lots of not so intelligent people playing, and I spend a ton of time cussing at my computer monitor for it as well. Well, that and at my worthless bots. However, sometimes it is not a skill issue if your playing with all solo players against a group who is talking and organized. Not much chance of organizing solo players, which is why I would like to see an option for those who only want to play solo. The rest of the stuff, like getting rid of the ranking system and win loss percentage I doubt DF would ever remove those, even though they actually ruined the w/l percentage when they started linking factions to events so you’re tallying losses for matches you never played. So, if it is not going to be accurate, why have it. It just gives a reason for someone to desert who wants to keep it artificially high.

I have zero confidence that DF will do anything other then token penalties anyway, even though offering the player the option of playing solo only wouldn’t change anything for those who don’t want to use it.

BTW, I did play a game tonight which we won, but not because anyone was building rally points, just because the enemy was worse then we were.

[MasterOfSlack]

Well I have never considered deserting BUT. Starting last night after the update i have now played 20-30 games - and half of them were on the map Wald…
I have selected that map as disliked on all mods and yet - every second game is on it.
So my question is - do the 20% stack ? Not that it matter too much at this point i rather stack 20% for 100 battles to come than place Wald one more goddamn time.

[LokalHero]

Welcome to the community!

Wald is a brand new map, so it’s artificially set to appear more often than other maps, for now at least. That’s why you’re seeing a lot in the map pool.

[MasterOfSlack]

Ah okay. And cheers - been here from beta but I had to be pushed hard to come and post and Wald just did it for me.
I literally finished 3 Walds on a roll. Can you guess what i just got right now ? Yeah - my first ever desert from the game.

[dextroverse]

Deserting has been the single biggest problem in Enlisted for the past 4 years.

Every time it gets brought up, the people who desert do not see any problem with deserting, they feel they are entitled to desert because of whatever minor annoyance they experienced during a match.

They do not care at all that they they agreed to play a random map with a random game mode when they clicked “Play”, and by deserting they end up screwing up every match for every other player who actually wants to play the game.

When it is pointed out to them that they can create a custom game at any time and select whatever map and game mode they want, they ignore this and instead insist that they are justified in deserting because the game has not been specifically tailored to allow them to win each match.

Every single time they want to defend their negative behavior by whining some variation of “instead of punishing the negative behavior (deserting) you should address WHY people choose to engage in the neagtive behavior (deserting).”

Instead of punishing the negative behavior of desertion, the devs have consistently have rewarded the negative behavior, and this of course has predictably caused it to continue. They have done this by trying to appease deserters by nerfing everything that anyone whines about in the game.

I do not know if I can remember everything that has been nerfed to oblivion over the past 4 years every time this argument is made, but it has made the game worse in an effort to appease those who are engaged in the very negative behavior of deserting.

• People said they must desert because the grind was too much, so they dramatically reduced the XP grind making it extremely easy to level up and get very piece of equipment.
• People said they must desert because of impact grenade spam, so they nerfed impact grenades until they became useless.
• People said they must desert because of white phosphorous was too powerful, so they nerfed white phosphorous grenades until they became useless.
• People said they must desert because explosive packs were too powerful, so they nerfed explosive packs to the point you can throw them under a tank and there is a 50/50% chance it will do any damage to the tank.
• People said they must desert because AP mines were too powerful, so they nerfed AP mines until they basically gave no damage if you run over them.
• People said they must desert because fire did too much damage, so they nerfed fire to the point that flamethrowers are mostly ineffective, you can use up a quarter of a tank of fuel to kill one soldier.
• People said they must desert because of the armored train escort maps, so they basically removed them from the map rotation like 2 years ago.
• People said they must desert because of artillery spam, so they removed the ability to see if artillery is ready from the hud, instead forcing the player to bring up the map and try and place an artillery strike just to see if it is in use by their team or not.
• People said they must desert because of grey zone tank camping so they introduced the saboteur class, and gave every faction German AT launchers like then ohenfohrs or panzerfaust.
• People said they must desert because of HE spam so they nerfed HE and removed HE from ceratin tanks and changed BR of some tanks.
• People said they must desert because their tanks get killed to easily, so they nerfed AT weapons and stealth nerfed airplane bombs, making them very unreliable now.
• People said they must desert because planes “kamakazi” into the ground, so now planes have been nerfed to the point where if you accidentally crash or bail out of your plane after taking damage, you will not be able to respawn in another plane until you respawn as infantry for a few rounds.
• People said they must desert because X weapon is too OP or to weak, so they either nerf a rifle or they buff a rife, throwing off the natural balance for people who did not have a problem.
• People said they must desert because they see X weapon or vehicle which they think doesn’t belong in their BR, so they added stricter rules separating the BRs.
• People said they must desert because they don’t like X map or game mode so they added a way to exclude I think up to 25 maps in the game.

Deserters still find reasons to desert.

After all of these changes to prevent desertion (and many more) the deserters will still recite the same refrain the have been saying for 4 years which is some variation of:

“I will still desert until the game is curtailed exactly to my specific preferences, which means I never die and am at the top of every match.”
“iNsTeAd Of PuNiShInG dEsErTeRs, FiX “WhY” pEoPlE dEsErT bEfOrE pUnIsHiNg ThEm!1!1!11!”

They have been fixing the alleged reasons “WHY” people claim they desert for years, but deserters will just find a new reason because of the positive reinforcement they have been receiving for their negative behavior.

The only thing that corrects a negative behavior like deserting is negative reinforcement.

If you REWARD negative behavior the negative behavior CONTINUES. This is why you punish criminals, you do not listen to the reasons for why a criminal committed a crime so you can excuse them, you punish them for committing the crime. Having a penalty that goes beyond one match is a corrective measure to remind the player that bad conduct has repercussions, like putting a criminal on probation.

The desertion penalties are a very small and much needed punishment for the largest issue that Enlisted has had, as again, deserting screws up the matches for everyone, due to a few selfish individuals caring only about whatever their personal issue is, and vowing to wreck every match for everyone until the game nerfs whatever personal issue they have.

[Dregomz]

@MasterOfSlack

So my question is - do the 20% stack ? Not that it matter too much at this point i rather stack 20% for 100 battles to come than place Wald one more goddamn time.

They don’t stack, you can desert and it will always be 2 matches even after you desert the next match, you can play one after 2 match desert penalty and then desert another one and not go back to 2 desert count.

[CaptainSebekel]

Strawman the comment. Feels like copium-session to complain about game changes you didnt like.

@dextroverse

People said they must desert because they don’t like X map or game mode so they added a way to exclude I think up to 25 maps in the game.

You mean this shitty port from War Thunder that doesn’t work?

@dextroverse

People said they must desert because they see X weapon or vehicle which they think doesn’t belong in their BR, so they added stricter rules separating the BRs.

Except that it still doesnt fix this issue since they still believe that they are misplaced (whatever that means).

@dextroverse

People said they must desert because X weapon is too OP or to weak, so they either nerf a rifle or they buff a rife, throwing off the natural balance for people who did not have a problem.

They still didnt really touch core issues beyond SF rifles and nerfing BR2 Germany, which is a BR4/BR5 issue for the SF case and even that was limited to the Germans and the Soviets.

@dextroverse

People said they must desert because planes “kamakazi” into the ground, so now planes have been nerfed to the point where if you accidentally crash or bail out of your plane after taking damage, you will not be able to respawn in another plane until you respawn as infantry for a few rounds.

And we still say Chineses suicide-crash into the ground.
Also, it is just one respawn and not “few”, at least if you have cycle squads.

@dextroverse

People said they must desert because their tanks get killed to easily, so they nerfed AT weapons and stealth nerfed airplane bombs, making them very unreliable now.

@dextroverse

People said they must desert because of HE spam so they nerfed HE and removed HE from ceratin tanks and changed BR of some tanks.

That was before BR existed and they mostly readded them or replaced them with HEAT, so a very present issue. Also, so far, the only tank that ever faced uptier was the Panzer III N and that because its German. And there are still other short-barrel German tanks left.

@dextroverse

People said they must desert because of grey zone tank camping so they introduced the saboteur class, and gave every faction German AT launchers like then ohenfohrs or panzerfaust.

The Panzerfäuste for Soviets exists since 2021 so I see you touch on the latest shit. Also, according to you they made AT launchers useless so there goes that.
Guerillas require to reach that tank first.

@dextroverse

People said they must desert because of artillery spam, so they removed the ability to see if artillery is ready from the hud, instead forcing the player to bring up the map and try and place an artillery strike just to see if it is in use by their team or not.

Artillery is still spamed and now it doesnt even kill friendly forces anymore.
And you can actually see if artillery is ready and even then if that is a seriois nerf for you…

@dextroverse

People said they must desert because of the armored train escort maps, so they basically removed them from the map rotation like 2 years ago.

Again, peak issue here.
Also, I see no correlation to other statements beyond the map filter that does not work. Dont think that people who deserted a mode from early 2020s desert now because of the “useless” AT launchers.

@dextroverse

People said they must desert because fire did too much damage, so they nerfed fire to the point that flamethrowers are mostly ineffective, you can use up a quarter of a tank of fuel to kill one soldier.

Dunno, looks like skill issue from your side.

@dextroverse

People said they must desert because AP mines were too powerful, so they nerfed AP mines until they basically gave no damage if you run over them.

And still kill if you dont run, which means they still kill bots quite good or if people climb.

@dextroverse

• People said they must desert because of impact grenade spam, so they nerfed impact grenades until they became useless.
• People said they must desert because of white phosphorous was too powerful, so they nerfed white phosphorous grenades until they became useless.

Again, peak issues from the early 2020s.

@dextroverse

People said they must desert because the grind was too much, so they dramatically reduced the XP grind making it extremely easy to level up and get very piece of equipment.

“Extremely easy”… after like what? Five years? Also, many squads are still having too high requirements and uograding is still expensive.

@dextroverse

When it is pointed out to them that they can create a custom game at any time and select whatever map and game mode they want, the

Dunn why.
Probably not due to lack of decent XP earning or deep custom game settings.

@dextroverse

Every time it gets brought up, the people who desert do not see any problem with deserting, they feel they are entitled to desert because of whatever minor annoyance they experienced during a match.

What “minor annoyance”? The same majority that fails to build rallies or captures CPs? The lack of actual map and mode selection?

@dextroverse

They do not care at all that they they agreed to play a random map with a random game mode when they clicked “Play”

Yeah Just accept and consume product and get excited for next product. Stop demanding working map and mode filters other games offer fro over two decades now.
And stop playing games for fun.

@dextroverse

people claim they desert for years, but

Robihr already pointed out that at least 50% of deserters desert due to maps and modes, not (really) due to the bullshit reasons you made up.

@dextroverse

This is why you punish criminals, you do not listen to the reasons for why a criminal committed a crime so you can excuse them

Sounds like the US Justice System in a nutshell and why it works shit because fixing causes instead of symptone-fighting is communism or something like that.

@dextroverse

screws up the matches for everyone

According to you, these people have skill issues so dunno what they can cause if they are that bad. If aynthing, you should perform better without them but I guess even that doesnt work.

[Luvs2spooge]

@dextroverse

Every time it gets brought up, the people who desert do not see any problem with deserting

I don’t necessarily think that most people don’t think there is a problem with deserting, the point is there is “NO WAY” to stop it short of suspending or banning people from doing it, and neither will grow the player base and will hurt the game more then the desertions themselves. So, if people are only of the mindset that punishment is the ONLY way, then the desertions will continue on the same scale as before.

The causes need to be addressed before a fix can be implemented.

Causes, bad match making, why? Well, I hear a lot of complaints about solo players having to play stacked groups. Give the players the choice of a solo player only match, this way solo players can opt out and play other solo players, and those who don’t care can ignore the solo only select box and play as normal.

To many people quitting to save their rank and winning percentage, so do away with them. The win loss percentage is not accurate anyway, and although I can’t speak for everyone, but I could care less about my rank, but it’s obvious that those two are important enough for people to desert.

Do away with points, silver, tech tree research, experience ect. for those who desert. Whether you play 30 seconds or 30 minutes, you quit the game, you get nothing to show for it. Currently, if I play and quit towards the end, I get the research points and some of the game benefits, so, eliminate all of that if you desert.

[OggeKing]

Made up strawman, and everyone who disagrees with the current penetly system aren’t systematic deserters so stop lying.

Also, where is this “deserter” lobby that pushed through some* of these balance changes? Many of the people who supported these changes also support the new penalties, are they also part of this mysterious deserter lobby now?

Some*, because some most of these are just plain schizo posting, some of these couldn’t even be altered by these deserters by deserting (how could you avoid core game mechanics by not playing some games?), and some others are just wrong (we still can’t exclude maps, and what’s this about aircraft bombs being unreliable?).

All of this leaves out that the penalties have done about nothing, people still leave games in the same numbers as before, but now people with legitimate reasons to leave (real life, or game/computer/internet not working) are treated the same as serial deserters which is just wrong.

[Luvs2spooge]

Desertion penalties summed up. Address the reasons instead of more penalties.

[robihr]

so much BS reasons you blame on desertion that had nothing to do with desertion. most of those “reasons” you mentioned were general balancing or removing toxic gameplay and not reasons for desertion.

there are generally 2 big reasons why people desert:

1. lack of map/mode selection. lots of people dont want to play conquest, nor assault. also some people dont want to play defenders for 10 times in a row. while somewhat mitigated, it is still woefully inadequate cause you cant even dislike all conquest and assault maps, not to mention some other bad maps(e.g. reverse d-day). even with dislikes you can still get disliked maps in MM, so it is still half assed solution.
2. roflstomps. it doesnt matter if it was caused by stacks or by having full bot team(or bot adjacent), one sided matches are just not fun for either side.

so while there is map preference now, they still havent done anything about roflstomps(minimum is to remove stacks from solo MM).

[Luvs2spooge]

@robihr

nor assault.

[OggeKing]

@robihr

dont want to play conquest

[CaptainSebekel]

Conquest is dope because it’s the shortest mode, which means if you need your weekly 2 games for the forum, it’s quick.

[Luvs2spooge]

Assault is my least favorite.