MP40, MP38 and Beretta 38/42 buff/correction

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Hello bajtársak and fellow forumdwellers!
First of all, I have a detailed explanation of BR2 SMG balance below, it’s worth checking it.

The Beretta 38/42 and the M1 Beretta
Beretta38-42

The Beretta 38/42 in reality had 550 rpm, however in game it only has 500 rpm by default and 570 max upgraded

in comparison
Pps43 in reality had 700 rpm, it’s in-game 700 rpm (default) and 800 rpm max upgraded.
Lanchester in reality had 600 rpm, it’s in-game 600 rpm (default) and 690 rpm max upgraded.
Sten mk.II in reality had 540-550 rpm, it’s in-game 550 rpm (default) and 630 rpm max upgraded.
SMGs in game simply always have the highest possible fire rate by default and max upgraded that gets increased by 15%.

Beretta 38/42´s base fire rate needs to be corrected from 500 rpm to 550 rpm.
This will increase its max upgraded fire rate to 630 rpm, giving it a slight buff DPS (64,6 → 71,4 damage per second, reminder: Pps42 has 77 DPS and Lanchester has 78 DPS)

The M1 Beretta However is going to stay 500 rpm by default making both the M1 and 38/42 submachine guns more unique.

The MP40 and MP38

The MP40 and MP38 were basically the same submachine guns in reality, the main difference was that the MP40 was made from stamped steel which significantly improved production speed, but no changes were made to the gun mechanism.

Despite this the MP40 is significantly better.

This makes no sense at all, so they should get the same stats, the only difference being that
MP40´s fire rate is increased from 500 (default) to 550 rpm while MP38 stays 500 rpm by default, making both guns unique.

MP38 reload time from 2.3 → 2.1 (same as MP40)
MP38 gets the same recoil as MP40 (11v 4h → 10v 4h)
MP38 gets the same damage as MP40 (6.8 → 7.0)
MP40 gets the same dispersion as MP38 (0.73 → 0.65)

The MP40 was regarded as one of the most accurate SMGs of the war, so giving it 0.65 dispersion would reflect that while it would only be very slightly more accurate than competitor SMGs on BR2 that usually have around 0.70 dispersion. (just for some comparison, the most accurate SMG on BR2 is the M3A1 submachine gun which has 0.52 dispersion).

In no way will these changes fully solve the massive powergap and these are meant to be a stopgap before the real solution: giving Axis a decent BR2 SMG with 600-700 rpm fire rate such as the Beretta 38/44 or Star Si submachine gun that can compete with Pps42 and M1A1 Thompson.

21 Likes
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The Best tech tree BR2 Axis SMGs with the next update will be the Mp40 and 38, the Beretta M1 and 38/42, all four are about similarly powerful.
However the M1A1 Thompson will heavily outshine these SMGs.

Here are the max upgraded stats of guns I will mention
Submachine Guns Damage Reload Timings (s) Statcard Recoil Actual Recoil Moving Spread Increase
Weapon Name Obtained BR 10m 100m Velocity Magazine Reload Alt Reload Rate of Fire Vertical Horizontal Recoil Control Vertical Horizontal Dispersion While Aiming Hipfiring Visual Recoil Recoil Dir ADS Speed Recoil Offset Sprint Factor Weight Additional Info
MP 38 48000 XP II 6.8 4.0 400 32 2.3 1.7 570 28 10 0.4 11 4 0.65 0.0 15.0 1.6 0.4 0.8 0.3 100% 4.8 32/128
Beretta M1 58000 XP II 6.8 4.0 400 40 2.5 2.1 570 26 10 0.4 10 4 0.73 0.0 15.0 1.6 0.3 0.8 0.3 100% 4.1 40/120
MP 40 100000 XP II 7.0 4.0 400 32 2.1 1.71 570 27 9 0.3 8 3 0.70 0.0 15.0 1.6 0.35 0.8 0.3 100% 4.7 32/128
Beretta M38/42 115000 XP III 6.8 4.0 400 40 2.3 1.9 570 27 8 0.4 11 3 0.68 0.0 15.0 1.6 0.4 0.8 0.3 100% 4.2 40/120
Lanchester 58000 XP II 6.8 4.0 400 32 2.3 1.8 690 30 11 0.4 12 4 0.71 0.0 15.0 1.6 0.1 0.8 0.3 100% 5.2 32/128
M1A1 Thompson 105000 XP III 8.2 5.5 265 30 2.3 1.8 690 36 14 0.4 14 5 0.73 0.0 15.0 1.2 0.4 0.72 0.3 100% 4.6 30/90
Type 2a SMG 38000 XP II 6.7 3.9 350 30 2.3 - 690 9 9 0.4 4 4 0.64 0.0 10.0 1.0 0.4 0.9 - 100% 3.4 30/120
PPS-42 32000 XP II 6.7 3.4 450 35 2.4 1.89 690 25 7 0.3 8 2 0.74 0.0 15.0 1.6 0.33 0.8 0.3 100% 3.115 35/105
PPS-43 36000 XP II 6.7 3.4 450 35 2.2 1.7 800 29 10 0.4 12 4 0.71 0.0 15.0 1.6 0.4 0.8 0.3 100% 3.155 35/105

First of all a player must understand how damage work:

A soldier has 20 HP, 10 “normal” HP and 10 HP in downed state
A soldier with vitality has 13,5 “normal” and 10 HP in downed state
The problem with calculating downstate HP is that its chance based and is best explained through examples:
John has 20 HP, he gets hit with 10 DMG so he has a 0% chance to die without entering downed state
John is hit with 11 DMG so he a low chance to die without entering downed state
John is hit with 19 DMG so he has a high chance to die without entering downed state

Once a soldier has entered the downed state, he must suffer 10 DMG to die. (cumulative! if you hit John for 15 DMG and he gets downed, he only has 5 HP left in downed state).

Vitality and max upgraded guns are the norm for veterans so I will be using those by default!
Every shot hits the torso and the soldier is NOT wearing body armour and is NOT paratrooper or flame II.

Mp40, Mp38, M1 Beretta, Beretta 38/42, Lanchester.
SMGs that do 6.8-7.0 damage at 10m
Down a soldier in 2 shots
Kill a soldier in 4 shots

Pps42, Pps43, Type 2a SMG
SMGs that do 6.7 damage at 10m
Kill a soldier with high chance in 3 shots
In the worst case scenario, if the soldier was lucky and got downed from 3 shots (low chance) they need a fourth shot to kill.

M1A1 Thompson, M3A1 Submachine gun (Grease gun)
SMGs that do 7.9-8.3 damage at 10m
Kill a soldier in 2 shots (low-medium chance), but guaranteed to down
Kill a downed soldier with 3rd shot (guaranteed)

The M3A1 Submachine gun has been BR2 for a while now but did not break balance because it had low fire rate.

MP40, MP38, M1 Beretta, Beretta 38/42: base fire rate 500 rpm, max upgraded fire rate 570 rpm.
DPS max upgraded: 64,6 and 66,5 (MP40 only)

Pps42: base fire rate 600 rpm, max upgraded fire rate 690 rpm.
DPS max upgraded: 77

Type 2a SMG: base fire rate 600 rpm, max upgraded fire rate 690 rpm.
DPS max upgraded: 77

Lanchester: base fire rate 600 rpm, max upgraded fire rate 690 rpm.
DPS max upgraded: 78,2

M3A1 Submachine gun: base fire rate 410 rpm, max upgraded fire rate 470 rpm.
DPS max upgraded: 65

M1A1 Thompson: base fire rate 600 rpm, max upgraded fire rate 690 rpm.
DPS max upgraded: 95,5

With everything I have said so far, I think it’s pretty clear that the M1A1 Thompson will power creep the hell out of BR2, but even without that the Axis SMGs were still the weakest by far and desperately need some buff.

13 Likes
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Germany is playing with BR2 power level at BR2
While All other nations are playing at BR2 with BR3 power level

That’s the issue and it’s getting worse and worse with each premium, gold order and TT weapon. People will say “git gud” or “just use Beretta” to shut you down but we both know our stats and that Germany was the weakest nation at BR2 and on a test server everyone even non believer can see that they just refuse to see it and want Germany to be the punching bags like during Tunisia campaign days.

7 Likes
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I must agree, powercreep has became the norm too much.
You could put M1A1 Thompson in BR4 and it would fit in with its DPS, it would be a good weapon in CQC.
If I were a new player and had to face veterans that cycle assaulter squads with Pps42/Thompsons while Im stuck with bolties, I wouldnt have stayed for sure.

8 Likes
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Yeah, this update seems like that pretty hard, by the 3N getting booted to 3, which was one of the main selling points of GE br2, and the soviets getting the hurricane and tokarev, which look overbuffed compared to what is actually at BR2. Can’t wait to fight soviets with 800+ RPM SMGs and body armour with my BR1 loadout :disappointed:

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Now it’s even worse
enlisted_2025-04-17_18-23-07
enlisted_2025-04-17_18-07-43
You should add that monster to your calculations it’s insane weapon and Dark-Gaijin has lost it’s mind by adding it to BR2

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So the Soviets are getting a submachine gun on BR2 as OP as M1A1 Tommy, why am I not surprised?

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Even more overpowered as it has less recoil + faster rof + good muzzle velocity. It’s a pretty much MP40 v2 upgraded by Stalinium with all stats vastly improved.

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They just turned those guns into worthless piece of junk as TT BR2 Thompson is just better than them due mag size and better recoil, they ofc have same dmg. What a stupid short sighted change.

Or you know could abandon old underpowered premium/gold orders and buy brand new power creeping premium. Totally not planned by Gaijin. i want a refund.

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:snail: :rightwards_hand: :credit_card: :moneybag:

10 Likes
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Every othere faction gets buffed in BR 2 but germany actually loses power in BR 2 with the 3N beeing moved.
Not sure why anyone would want to play BR 2 germany now.
SMG are sub par.
Tanks no longer are powerful.
Semi isnt even special anymore.
Only thing actually good anymore is the MG 13 but mg alone dont win matches.

They actually might have killed off BR 2 for me.

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And if you think that you will safe from getting Gaijined in BR5, Soviets will now OHK you with Fedorov Avtomat. Just as Stalin intended.

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enlisted_2025-04-17_19-27-36
Maybe we should convince Gaijin that Germany is Japan so we could receive 50 round smg at BR2 and also make MP40 into laser with 670 rof :rofl:
enlisted_2025-04-17_19-28-49

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Anyone wanna convince DF that japan bought some more stuff from germany?
the 3N used to be quite fun. XD

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It bounces a lot every 4-5 shots it’s barely usable unless you bipod (still not fixed) or crouch shot and burst every time it can work but it’s not that great. While Soviets/Americans are playing Call of duty and just bouncing around with their no recoil ultra fast firing smg while also dance strafing at your pathetic MG gunner.

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Japan did purchase two Pz IIIs, Im not sure if that was the III N though.

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Gaijin UK is intended

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yeah its frustrating, I have been very clearly showing for the past year how German BR2 has noticeable issues dealing with Soviet BR2 specifically.

I know the devs know what I am saying, because unlike most others here I have made the experience that the devs are actually very active when it comes to such community feedback - why they still refuse to acknowledge this is a mystery to me.

What benefit is there when no German player keeps playing BR2, and they all move to higher BRs instead?

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you forgot to include pps43 with its 800rpm
DPS: 89.33

7 Likes