More than 2 gunners per squad is just OP

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Hi all, with all pluses and minuses, I am really enjoying ENLISTED so far. Sorry if my English is not completely natural, I am not a native English speaker. And of course thank you for reading and giving your opinion on this matter.

I recently unlocked 447th regiment in Moscow campaign and I was negatively shocked that you can have 3 gunners in this squad which is quite frankly too much. LMG is OP weapon as it should be, but for that exact reason it should be limited. Few reasons for this:

  1. Historical background - as far as I have read (and I read a lot, historical wargamer, Flames of war and Bolt Action collector) no army in the world concentrated that much firepower in one squad. LMG was too valued and too rare, it had to be evenly spread out between infantry squads. The whole point of infantry squad is to protect the LMG, carry ammo and so on. Only German Panzergranadiers were sometimes equipped with 2, late in the war.
  2. Ability to wipe whole squads if placed correctly - speaks for itself, only comparison is the SMG that is powerful but is limited to close range which is fine, it has a limiting factor
  3. NO FEAR OF DEATH - MOST IMPORTANT ONE - as a player you should be careful with gunner as he is probably the most valued member of the team. But, there is no fear is if you can re-spawn multiple times with this same OP gun. If you loose a gunner, logical thing is to pick up the gun if you can and are not dead before. I know there are issues with picking up guns from the ground but these will be fixed in the future, or at least I hope so.

As a side note, I was not exactly sure why is there so much whining with limiting premium MG squads to 4 members. I thought to myself, why would they do that as those squads are made of 2 gunners and other squad members that you can choose appropriately as any other squad. So lets say 2 gunners and 2 troopers… Yeah right :confused:

I was ABSOLUTELY SHOCKED when I released those squads are made completely out of gunners?!? 4 MG30 in a squad? (MG30 just as an example)

What is wrong with having premium squad that gives you more exp, has GREAT gun, has great squad members with great perks and is in line with all the other regular squads? Nothing if you ask me. It can even have more members if they are normally armed in my opinion.

Would I buy premium MG squad with 2 MG30 gunners and rest of squad equipped with Kars and SMG-s or however the squad limits are? Yes I would. Would this squad be great compared to others? Yes it would. Would it be OP and pay to win? Maybe it would give you slight advantage but nothing more than that.

Would I buy premium MG squad with 4 MG30?!?! No I would not, its totally OP and out of current meta. Why would you slaughter all the other regular players? Is this squad OP even with 4 members? I guess it is, I don’t own it and never will if it stays this way.

I stopped playing WarThunder because of some crazy decisions they had there. I just hope it will not be the case with this game.

I wish you all a good weekend!

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Ok, you can limit MG gunners, but only if we also limit assaulters, snipers, AT guys, mortar guys, etc. because of all the reasons you mentioned (so we end up with almost everyone running with regular troopers).
As you may guess it’s not the best thing to do from the gameplay perspective.
(I’m talking only about non premium.)

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Be thankfull that you didn’t are CBT premium squads before nerf - they had possibility to put 7 LMGs in them.
Accordong to the devblogs before OBT LMG squads were supposed to have 2 gunners. But it seems that they changed their mind.

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I agree with you that some balance needs to be implemented so that we don’t only have regular troopers. I must admit, I am talking about Moscow campaign, I didn’t play Normany because I played it in so many other games and I Moscow is a breath of new air, lets say so.

Currently, everything other is quite frankly ok, at least in my eyes. 4 Assaulters, 3 Snipers, and so on. Non of them give you that much advantage as gunner.

Mortars are another story as they should not have infinite ammo as they have now.

Don’t know why is that but I support their original idea with 2 gunners. I would definitely buy it then. But maybe I am strange as I don’t like OP stuff even if it benefits me.

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I don’t agree with this one. In Moscow SMG is king.

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In general, I’d like to see a reduction of automatic and semi-automatic weapons in battle.

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Ok, maybe your opinion is correct, maybe 3 is just a sweet spot for number of SMG-s. I am not claiming that only my opinion matters but quite an opposite. If majority is fine with 3 or more gunners per squad, who am I to counter that. But, in my humble opinion, its unrealistic, op and ruins the game.

I just hope when more players reach higher campaign levels, devs will limit number of semi auto rifles somehow. Having every trooper equipped with Gewehr 41 or SVT-38 is not my coup of tea :confused:

Just quick thinking, add something like new Trooper 3 that has max spots per squad of 2. Only Trooper 3 can use semi auto, or something like that. Open for ideas.

It’s Beta still and I hope they can still make quality changes to the game.

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I was speaking about free LMG squads. We were told that they would have 2 gunners instead of 3.
Premium squads will stay as they are. But it is much better that they have 4 soldiers of their class, not 7.

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Indeed, in the later stages of the game, there seem to be too many automatic weapons. I personally hope that even at the end, soldiers with bolt-on rifles can still account for at least 2/3. After all, this is World War II, not modern warfare.

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Understood. I hope premium squads will not stay the same but will be modified. And I agree that having 7 gunners in squad is… even 4 is bad.

If DEVS are concerned with monetary gain, they can just increase how many silver orders semi auto costs. If only 2 members of every squad can have them, just increase the cost so it costs the same as equipping every trooper/engineer/radioman with it and problem solved. Grinders and those who pay will have to spend the same number of orders as currently.

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Silver orders aren’t necessary to earn them (in my opinion). So increasing the cost will do very little I think. I’ve never spent a single silver order and I have 20+ automatic weapons. I hardly spend the bronze orders on weapons either (instead opt’ing to spend tons of AT/Peronsal mines, supplies, and large packs once those unlocked).

I will say this. Automatic weapons are annoying. 75 bullet clip magazines of automatic weapons that melt you instantly are beyond annoying. Many top scorers are already rocking loadouts that allow them to kill 7+ people without ever needing to reload and can easily be used at a range. If I watched these people play all day, the only gun I’d have even thought existed in WW2 was nothing but high mag subs.

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Too show what I mean, it often feels like I’m literally the only person in the lobby using classes that are not either Assault or Gunner. So much so I often get awards for those classes without even trying while other people do nothing but ride subs and LMGs all day.

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You use planes and Mortars, thats even worse.

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I don’t think the mortar is particularly OP. Radio 30 second artillary strikes are much worse. I haven’t gotten more than 3 kills in a match with the mortar weapon itself, and I can take a screenshot of the achievement being 3/30 to prove it if I really must. I got top scorer with mortar there just bolt action’ing the enemy team.

As for attack pilot. Guilty as charged. I personally expressed happiness for the 1 minute spawn timer on planes in the past on these forums. The map was Avangard Collective Farm (Conquest) though. My personal opinion is that pilots in general aren’t as strong on Conquest maps. Not unless it’s stronghold maybe (which has no buildings on Alpha point).

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How do you earn them then? Bronze? It is random, you still have to spend tons of them to get Gewehr 41 or SVT-38 for each soldier. We are talking here about not one soldier having bolt action in late campaign.

As already said, mortars should have limited ammo, same as you cant resupply grenades but only bullets from ammo boxes. Have each mortarman carry some and that’s it. When you are out, you are out.

I am aware that there are other problems which coincide with this one.
No offense to anyone (sounds better), but this thread is about gunners per squad.

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Gewehr 41s or SVT-38’s would be my concern if they were meta from my perspective. But as it stands, assault classes are the most meta class in the game, followed by gunners. Assaults being like 90% of the problem and gunners by the 9%. Gunners just feel like Assault filler, and people would run nothing but Assaults with SMGs all game if they were allowed too.

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Uh… the only problem I see with this is that semi autos and autos were the standard from about 1943 on. At least for the US faction. The Germans stuck with the Kar98 though out the war because their capacity to manufacture the semi autos was reduced by strategic bombing .

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Agreed, ah we can only ask the devs to revisit the number of Assaults and Gunners per squad.

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Thing is Moscow campaign is in 1941 :smiley:

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Yes! for Moscow campaign the bolt action should be the standard pretty much throughout

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