Minor Nation Ideas for the Upcoming Progression System (vehicles and HMG)

Suggestions
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As we are all aware, Darkflow has had a new progression system in the works. We’ve already had confirmation that this progression system is similar to War Thunder’s own “Tech Tree,” which means that weapons are researched one by one. So, most of us knows what can we expect from Germany, the USSR and the Us. What about the minor nations, such as Italy, Japan and the UK ? Most likely, they are going to be absorbed into their “hosts”. This is just an idea if they were to ever become an independent faction.

Britain.
The British Empire is indeed, strong. It has some great tank designs up until the end of the war. So, making a list for them starting from the mid 1930s ain’t that hard.

Light tanks for Britain is easy and most of it is already available in the Tunisian campaign:
-A13 (already ingame)
-Crusader (40mm)
-Crusader (57mm) (already ingame)

Medium. A bit more varied stuff here, and will form the backbone for the Brits 1943 onwards:
-Valentine I (40mm)
-Cromwell V (75mm)
-Shermans (75mm and Firefly)
-Comet I
-Centurion Mk I (the opus magnum for the Brits, the tank that will conquer all).

Heavies. Your backbone up till the end.
-Matilda
-Churchill III
-Churchill VII
-Black Prince

Tank Destroyers. The Germans have that Pz IV/70, so, we are most likely going to see other nations getting their own TD.
-Archer
-3pdr Gun Carrier
-M10 Achilles
-Avenger

AA. Hey, the Pacific gets em. So, give it to everyone else.
-Staghound AA

The Brits will keep using their very own 12.7mm M2 Browning. We could add in the Vickers .50 cal, but that is too out of hand

Italy.
This faction can be considered to be the hardest to think about because they switched sides in 1943. So, I’ll take the lend lease school of thought because it is likely that Darkflow will just do that. Considering that the Germans and the Japanese can get their hands on the PPSh and B.A.R, the Soviets with the Chaucat and Lewis Gun, I don’t see it being out of the realm of possibility.

Light Tanks:
-AB 41
-L6/40
-AB 43

Medium. The easiest to make, yet so far the most decisive. You will also see that I need to add in some lend lease stuff just to make them competitive up till 1945.
-M13/40
-M14/41
-P26/40
-Pz IV G
-Sherman Firefly
-P40/43 (Panther-like armour and the infamous 90mm Italian gun, this thing is the only medium tank the Italians had that can effectively counter most things in 1945).

Heavies:
Sadge, nothing

TANK DESTROYERS, SEMOVENTE, SEMOVENTI. If one thing the Italians excels at making tanks, that would be their semoventes. This line of tanks would be the backbone of the Italian army from the beginning to the end:
-L.40 47/32
-75/18 M41
-75/32 M41
-75/34 M42
-90/53 M41M (abysmal armour an ammo count, but great 90mm gun)
-Breda 501 (no armour, easy target. However, if you can start getting into position and not get shot at, oh boy every single infantrymen and tanks trembles at the sound of your 90mm gun with 40 ROUNDS OF AMMUNITION).
-105/25 M43 (good penetration, terrifying explosive filler, terrifying 105mm HE round, what do ya want more ?!)
-75/34 M43 (104mm of armour at the front, the same amount of armour as the Tiger I. Weak gun, unfortunately)
-75/46 M43 (a straight up upgrade of the 75/34 but now with the German made PaK 40. No, not the KwK 40, but the actual towed anti tank gun, which gives it an excellent penetration and good enough protection).

AA:
-M42 Contra aero Quadruplo 20mm Scotti cannons. SI!

Extra addition: an advice for future Italian HMG would be the 12.7mm Breda SAFAT. An aircraft gun, but as the war progresses, infantry uses it as any other HMG with great success. Hey, the Germans got their MG131, why can’t the Italians get the Breda SAFAT ?
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Japan. Probably the hardest to find and decipher, just due to how hard is it to get them till 1945:

Light:
-Ha-Go (ingame)
-Ke-Ni

Medium:
-Chi-Ha
-Cha-Ha Kai
-Che-He
-Chi-Nu
-Chi-To
-Chi-Ri (opus Magnum, but still meh compared to, let’s say, a Panther or even a T-34/85)

Heavy:
Unfortunately, never existed beyond the paper stage

TD:
Not much hope aside from the Na-To and that 120mm Chi-Ha. The Ho-Ri can be a saving grace and the most powerful TD in the game, albeit with massive balancing issues.

HMG, we’ve already had it.

These are all my ideas. I wanna hear yours. Come here and comment, pls.

4 Likes
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Hi the japanese have their search tree planned it’s announced on this new
IMG_0967

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AB43 wasn’t used by Italy, P26 wasn’t used by Italy, 75/32 M41 wasn’t used by Italy (even though it is in Tunisia for some reason) 75/32 M42 wasn’t used by Italy,
105/25 M43 wasn’t used by Italy, 75/46 M43 wasn’t used by Italy, M42 Contra AA wasn’t used by Italy.

All these I listed were used by Germany not Italy.

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Remove Black Prince, we don’t need prototypes, who never saw combat in this game.

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The issue that we are facing is simply in this new progression system, we can expect some of the most advanced stuff the Brits need to face. The Black Prince can be removed, sure, it is not that important anyways, especially with the Centurion.

Of course, we have to also consider that the Black Prince can be used as an analogue to the German Köningstiger or the Soviet IS-2. However, the Centurion’s own presence will make the Black Prince pretty much obsolete. So, good for you.

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Hmm, I see. Germany, or its puppet state the Italian Social Republic ? Even though you will say that it is part of Germany as it is its puppet, it is still, all and all, Italy. Either way, the point that you are making is pretty much irrelevant, as these vehicles were Italian, used by the Italians to some degree, and the Germans don’t need more tank destroyers.

Historical accuracy is great until it is not. There is a fine balance between what is fun and what is historical, as MatPat puts it. Even then, the Italians saw service with these vehicles, either as part of the Allied Army, the last days before the armistice, or as a puppet of the Germans. They are still Italians and they need these vehicles to fill in their ranks.

Remember that the Italian Republican Army is seen not as part of the German armed forces, in my eyes, as these are still Italian, waving the tricolour and serving the Italian state, not directly to the German state.

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The single Semovente M43 da 105/25 deployed by the Gruppo Corazzato ‘Leoncello’ near Brescia. It was in Italian service between January to April 1945. Its only operational action was on 24th April, when it tried to reach Milan to defend the city, but was abandoned on the roadside on the morning of 25th April 1945. Source: Italia 43-45. I blindati di circostanza della guerra civile. (Tank Encyclopedia)

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A Semovente M42M da 75/34 of the CXXXV Battaglione Semoventi Controcarri da 75/34 of the 135a Divisione Corazzata ‘Ariete II’ near Cesano di Roma in early September 1943. (Tank Encyclopedia)

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Rare image of a Royal Italian Army tank crew training on the Semoventi da 105/25 in Nettunia, summer 1943. (Tank Encyclopedia)

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An M43 da 105/25 of the Regio Esercito without the left track on a Viberti trailer, waiting to be repaired. (Tank Encyclopedia)

The AB43, on the other hand, remains a prototype, blocked by the armistice in 1943. The Germans were unable to restart production of the AB43 with the cannon.
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The AB43 ‘Cannone’ prototype while it is being tested during the last days of July 1943. (Tank Encyclopedia)
Thus, making it not a German vehicle in any ways, but a fully Italian one. The normal AB 43 would have been useless, as it is not better than the preexisting AB 41.

While these late war vehicles were primarily used by the Germans, these are still Italian vehicles made by Ansaldo and still is in service with the Italian Republican Army. The only exception is for the 75/46, which was exclusively used by the Wehrmacht. Out of all the 11 units built, none of the served in the Italian Social Republic. We could eliminate the 75/46 M43 because it was used only by the Germans.

I don’t think you did your research right. You may have seen some pics or read the wiki article, but try to read other things. That is my advice.

The other idea is to also add in allied vehicles for the Italians if it was used by the Italian allied/co belligerent army.

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Churchill tank of ‘C’ Squadron, North Irish Horse of the Italian Co Belligerent Army carrying Italian infantry of 3rd Battalion, 21st Infantry (Italian), north of Castel Borsetti, 2 March 1945 (Wikipedia)

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Yeah but unfortunately Italy in Enlisted is listed as Axis so Italy won’t be on both sides.

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Italian volunteers continued to fight the Allies even after the armistice with many serving in the Wehrmacht and the Luftwaffe.
Many more Italians fought on the Axis’s side in the divisions of the RSI. An italian SS division (29th SS) and most Italian paratroopers volunteered to continue the fight with Fallschirmjäger units, also many Italian pilots flying under the Luftwaffe.
Graziani’s units were the last non German lead units to achieve significant victories against the Allies. Its all but forgotten that the Italians managed to humiliate the invaders because the media coverage is more focused of the battle of the Bulge and D-day.
The Allies on the other hand saw no need of Italian help, only trusting some with actual combat roles like the legendary Folgore division reformed as a regiment.

I believe anyone reasonable would agree with me that Italy is most justly represented on the side of the Axis.
No shame in losing a war, shame on the people who demonised the vanquished.

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I have to agree on that. Indeed, the participation of the Italians in the allied side has been quite limited, after rereading the facts. They were mainly used as supply troops rather than frontline troops.

However, my suggestion remained on the idea of giving Italy its own independent tech tree/faction rather than being absorbed by Germany. However, I had to say yes, Italy should still mainly fight on the side of the axis. However, different and independent from the Germans, still on the same side.

This is why I listed the British in this suggestion/think tank. I also want them to be separate and different from the Americans,. However, they will still fight in the same side, however with different set off weapons and skins.

What’s the advantage ? More content that we may not have seen before. For example, we might be able to play as the British and commonwealth forces in the Malayan and Burma campaign against the Japanese. These campaigns only feature American forces in guns (like the Thompson and purchased aircrafts like the CW-21) only.

So, you could see why I propose Italy as a separate faction rather than one absorbed into Germany. You have more things, more content in game, more possible campaigns and more flavour to it. We might get the not so glorious and memorable East Africa campaign, which would have been fascinating. With a completely different battlefield, in the jungles, plains and mountains of Ethiopia. Unlikely to come, but still an interesting thought nonetheless.

The point of my previous comment is to show that the Semoventes and all the tanks that Jaredup mentioned was indeed used by the actual Italians rather than merely being used by the SS or the Wehrmacht, whatever their side was.

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Relax. Why have more vehicles in the game than infantry weapons, when only two can be deployed anyway.
Anyway, it’s very easy to implement vehicles from WT in the game, so there will definitely be more and more of them.