Mark the location of the next objective and change spawn points to be a bit to the sides

Defenses being set up in the middle of a firefight just really don’t hold up. In comparison, setting them up before the enemy arrives can be an absolute game changer. Unfortunately, its usually a 50/50 chance as to where the next objective will be. Even if you DO manage to figure out where it will be, and start setting up defenses, your teammates will run right through, think that you are trying to sabotage the team, and break the fortifications down.

My suggested solution is to mark the location of the next objective so that the teams’ engineers can set up the defenses, and set the spawn points for the current objective wider to the sides. This way, fortifications meant to protect the next objective aren’t hindering the reinforcements to the current objective.

I set up rally points every time, but teammates don’t seem to use them much, especially when im trying to put defenses up.

12 Likes

no. instead of wasting time and setting up defenses, you should be trying to fight attackers with everything so they dont manage to capture the point. sometimes there is really small difference in fights where every player counts.

also best way to repel attackers is to set rally point on min distance (anywhere between 30-80m depending on map) and then rushing far in front of the cap to kill enemy. that way even if you get killed you have some buffer to spawn on your rally point and get into cap.

Camper mentality

Yes, it would be the most basic change to make defensive engineering far improved.

1 Like

It’s the meta, but what a miserable, and boring way to play.

2 Likes

why boring? you are in the middle of action every time that way. is it better to build xx structures that are all destroyed by explosive pack? or camp with sniper 100m away from the cap? or camp with tank in gray zone?

It’s boring to do only that, game should expand and facilitate different ways of gameplay. If I’m tired of rushing point with my maxed outed sweaty assault squads, and I want to mess around with building then game should support that.

2 Likes

nothing stopping you to build now. going to another cap to build your fortification is taking away 1 player from actually defending current cap. many times games are lost cause players are derping around everywhere just not on cap.

Half baked mechanics stop me (like not knowing what will be next point to fortify), but anytime someone suggest some kind of idea for improvement people come with usual “no, the way you want to play is a waste of time bro, devs should change nothing and you should play the way I want - just build rally 40 m from point and keep spawning on rotation 3 assaults squads with unlimited defensive tickets”.

5 Likes

i am against knowing the next point cause someone will go derp around for 3-4 minutes building fortifications (that in most cases will impede friendlies more than enemies). and you know what will happen? enemies will come, drop 1-2 explosive packs and destroy all those fortifications.
and while player is derping around, point that otherwise might not be lost if they had support of another player will be lost, or attackers would lose extra 100-200 tickets if defenders had another player.

if you want to build fortifications build them on current cap. sandbags and ammo boxes are always needed in heat of action, not 100m away from action.

First off, fully read the suggestion. “most cases will impede friendlies more than enemies” is really not the case. The original post even states that spawn points should be moved more to the sides, for the specific purpose of not impeding teammates spawning in.
Secondly, if your argument is “they stop our retreat”, then you are going against what you are preaching. You say everyone should be up front, point blank range every time, and if so, then you shouldn’t be retreating.

Third, and most importantly, take heed of the expression “sometimes you have to lose a battle to win a war.” If you want to be up front fighting to hold every inch, that’s on you. I for one know the power of setting up good defenses. If solid defenses are put in place, its FAR easier to hold that next objective more effectively. So even if the engineers take the time to set up defenses rather than fight up on front objective, they may be the reason that the next objective is where you win.
As far as “people don’t know how to build effective defenses” maybe because they don’t have the experience to see what works and what doesn’t. Trying to put up hasty defenses in the middle of a firefight doesn’t really help with that. In comparison, getting the time to set them up properly might first help with placement, and secondly let them learn from their mistakes. Trust me, a dedicated engineer will find a vantage point to see how their defenses fare, in order to build better the next time.

Regarding the repeated comment “a single explosive pack will break half the fortifications”:
First off, if the defenses are set well, then NO, they won’t.
Secondly, if the assault squad players are pushing as hard as they try to say they are, the explosive packs are more likely going to be used against infantry, rather than fortifications.
Third, the more fortifications they break up front with explosive packs, means they no longer have the explosive pack to use against infantry. A sandbag breaks due to absorbing the hit from a pack? So? The guys on the other side are still alive.
Fourth, if the engineers do their job correctly, there should still be shooting positions to use: cracks between sandbags or the slit in the upper part of a sandbagged window are EXTREMELY effective. If people make use of these, most of the people tossing packs won’t get close enough.
Lastly, barbwire placed in trenches is more durable than most people actually realize. Unless the pack lands in the trench, or right on the edge of it, the barbwire will stay intact. Combining this with Czech hedgehogs on THEIR side of the trench creates an EXTREMELY strong barrier. It funnels them in, stops them from jumping across as easily, and is actually very resistant to explosive packs.

All in all, engineers are very necessary, and the fortifications can be the make or break of a game.

3 Likes

i agree with your suggestion. but then give defenders 1000 tickets also.

If defenders are given tickets, it needs to be more than 1K. Overall, I don’t think giving defenders tickets is a good idea. After all, the win condition of offense it to capture all zones. The win condition of defense it to run attackers out of reinforcements. It would be very unfair to attackers if they could ALSO be defeated by running out of tickets, as attackers can’t be forced back to other objectives.

Obviously I’m talking about INVASION mode. Confrontation mode already exists, and is basically what you are asking for.

so you want to heavily fortify the positions and have unlimited tickets? think little about game balance.

i didnt want to spend time writing long comment but here it is:

only bots and noobs go with spawn points. rally points are mostly set up in standard positions on maps.

never said that. i said that usually those engineers that “fortify” position usually impede friendlies more than enemies. they block entrances that friendlies use or create fortifications that enemies can also use when capping.

and i know power of all people in front shooting the enemy. one or two person derping around and not being around cap can mean difference between enemy capping the point in a minute or in 10 minutes. when half of your team is bots, having 1-2 human players helps immensely. you leaving for 3-5 minutes (if you think of digging trenches) can doom that point way in advance and leave attackers with full tickets. only way you could be useful in setting up defenses is if you build sloped AA, but that is cancer.

grenades lob you know? they can easily get behind sandbags and kill infantry and destroy fortifications. and meta is large grenade bags for non assaulters. so enemy usually has second and third grenade.

are we playing the same game? cracks between sandbags? slit on sandbagged window? i haven seen players use any of those and i have been playing for some 10 months now.

so you want to spend 10 minutes preparing defenses? idk if you will even have engineer points for everything you want to setup.

also in this game rally points win the games, not fortifications.

Yes - so let’s have discussions how to change that to make other ways of playing valid so that people can actually contribute by doing something outside of meta.

I for one want to see player built fortifications to make a difference and be an actual challenge for the attacker if well built, and agree that the defender tickets should be limited. Defenders should maybe have even less tickets then attacker, but offset that by giving them opportunity to properly fortify and make those fortifications advantageous.

1 Like

game needs to solve much bigger issues if it wants to stay alive. like playerbase disparity, or lack of MM. when you have half of your team as bots vs full team of human players it is impossible to defend even if you build maginot line. you hardly ever get balanced teams where tactics could matter. so human wave tactics are most efficient way to play, specially with defenders unlimited tickets.

So we should resolve playerbase issues by…changing nothing? I don’t see any ideas from you on how to attract more players. How many people are thrown off by only “human wave tactics”, because they have no other meaningful ways to play?

1 Like

no… playerbase issues must be resolved by unifying grind and having actual MM. then there needs to be incentives to join less populated side (or even better auto join). most people arent thrown off by human wave tactics, but by roflstomps when they go play less populated side.

changes like this should be better implemented in mods where they could be tested by community with relatively balanced teams before implementing them ingame. cause if this brings negative changes, considering activity of devs it wont be resolved for a long time. defenders already have overwhelming advantage with unlimited tickets and making heavy fortifications can make game unplayable for attackers. e.g. just look what happened when people started building AA to block entrances to cap points. it is still extremely toxic on some maps.

You’re talking about roflstomps, let me tell you, its USUALLY attackers obliterating defenders. You know what would make that a lot less so? DECENT DEFENSES. Throwing endless waves of troops at it rarely wins out. In my experience playing, the ONLY time defenders win, is when defenses are set up to thin out the attacking force.

2 Likes

no. it is biased faction in campaign obliterating no matter what the side they are on. so in e.g in normandy axis will obliterate allies no matter if they are defending or attacking side. and similar situation is on other campaigns. roflstomps happen cause of playerbase disparity, not cause defenders suck.