They aren’t godtier but their reputation in the forum is not justified. Like already mentioned before both are awesome in close range engagements and only beaten by the Garand if there are only one or two enemies. The hipfirespread on the carbines is really good. But despite all both would deserve a moderate buff to their recoil. But not down to the level of pistols or SMGs just enough to shorten the time for follow up shots a bit.
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The M2 has high recoil and low damage and it’s counterpart the FG42 has high damage and low recoil [/quote]
And here it’s obvious you have not reached the FG in the campaign youself. Even before the recoil was increased across the board with a recent patch the FG had a considerable recoil in fullauto. Beyond 10m full auto was a waste of ammo before the patch and after the patch semi auto is the better option in all situations except room clearing - where the M2’s recoil doesn’t matter,too.
Furthermore the accuracy of both FG variants got a considerable nerf at some point in the last two weeks.
True, it is subjective. I hate the iron sights of the k98 and G43 from the depth of my heart and love the ones on the Ross and at least like the Enfield’s and 1903’s iron isghts. And a lot of people would disagree with me…well probably with the exception of the G43’s sight being an utter pain in th ass.
No. It’s a .30 carbine and not a 7.92 Mauser or a .30-06. It’s damage is above .45ACP and a 5* carbine can kill with 2 shot up to 200m - less then 5 star at least up to 100m. And in the 100m range even a fullpower catridge semi auto rifle often needs two shots.
The G43 compares to the Garand not to the carbines. It has terrible sights and a worse recoil than the Garand and especially than the carbines. 84 vertical for the G43 and 66/54 for the M1/M2. The G43’s recoil coupled with it’s iron sights results in very slow follow up shots if you want to hit anything but a barn door.
Go grind the German camaign, get some meaningful triggertime with the FG and the reconsider your complaints.
Imo lower the recoil of the carbines by 15-20% and everything is completely fine.
The M1 and Garand are the same when comparing how many enemies there are, as they’ll both kill about the same number of enemies with one mag (although garand gets through it faster and can hence kill more enemies faster). M2 yeah that’s fair enough, i’d probably take an M2 over a garand if I was tackling 5+ enemies at once. Under 4 enemies though a garand will win still, as it can oneshot each of the four and still have enough left to finish the downs if needed.
Lets actually look at the stats rather than making up numbers. You say the FG42 has ‘considerable recoil’, yet compared to the M1 and M2 it’s got far lower recoil. Here are the stat numbers below.
As we can see from this, is that the FG42 outclasses all of these guns considerably, with a 20 round mag, lower recoil than the garand and oneshot kill potential its by far the superior option out of these weapons. The BAR is comparable on Allies, but is limited to only gunner. With the FG42 you can have a BAR on every member of your 9 man infantry squad if you want.
As you can also see from the above is that the M1 carbine is outclassed in every respect against virtually every weapon here. It’s got slightly better recoil than the garand/gewehr but needs to land two shots on target to get a kill (outside of headshots of course), so the recoil value is far more important to get the second follow up shot.
I also notice how in one breath you say that ironsights are subjective, then also use sights as a big part of your argument against the Gewehr (sights I actually really like, since they’re thinner than the garand i find them more precise, but it’s largely subjective).
Edit: Another thing, nobody uses an automatic weapon at range, its not smart.
Your approach is very theoretical and based on a 100% accuracy. No shot missed no target hit twice and total awarness of the enemies position. 15 and especially 30 shots in a mag has a lot more tolerance for errors.
How about getting a bit more practical now? It’s fine to see some numbers there on the statcard and I would guess that they represent the behaviour of the FG in semi auto. But now try the FG for some games at take a look how it behaves on full auto. Also notice how big the hipfire spread of the FG is ( it was wayyy smaller a short time ago) plus how many perfectly aimed shot will miss because the accuracy got also nerfed.
And as a small addition compare the recoil of the G43 with the Garand and then take a look at the numbers. If you are used a bit to the Garand you can nearly stay on target while this is impossible with the G43 - the difference is way bigger than the statcards suggest.
And finally don’t forget that the M1 carbine is a god damn lvl 4 unlock while the FG is lvl 23. So if you want to compare it then the M2 would be the candidate. Now consider that I said that the carbines deserve a ~15% reduction of the recoil. Then the M2’s recoil would be en par or even better than the FG and has a 30 round mag. Besides that, if things would stay how they are now the carbines have the better accuracy. Ergo with a ~15% reduced recoil things would be totally fine with both guns having areas where one ie better than the other.
The G43 was the one gun where I said it’s maybe a little less subjective because many people don’t like them. Actually you are the first person I encounter who likes them. They are very comparable with the M1903 sights. Square notch and a simple post. But while I like the sights on the M193 because the notch is a bit wider and the post even thinner. Your sights aren’t blocking your view on the target. On the G43 the notch is tighter and the post is (afair) a little bit thicker. Very good for precice shots on a stationary target in situation wit no time pressure. But the G43 jumps afterevery shot and you loose your view on the target. You have to find it again and align on it again. While you are correct on the disadvantage of the Garand’s bigger post, it’s completely negated by the advantage of the ghost ring. Despite the minor difference in numbers for the recoil it jumps a lot less and your target will stay inside the ghostring instead of disappearing behind a “big” metal block of the notch or even the whole rifle. I get 3-4 aimed shot with a Garand in the same time I probably get two aimed shots with the G43.
These two rifles are a wonderful example how vague the statcard numbers are compared to the actual behaviour in game. Muzzle rise, visual recoil, the degree of recentering which takes place without player input and ring vs notch aka. how much vision is blocked by the sights are all variables not represented by some statcard numbers.
well untill you’ve unlocked the FG and don’t judge it only from the receiving end or the very limited experiece from a looted gun here and there your critique is not very well funded. Do the grind, try it yourself and then let’s talk again with my suggested minus ~15% recoil for the (M2) carbine in mind.
And mind you,I’m not defending my favourite gun here - I’m playing mainly US these days.
Edit: “considerable recoil” for the FG was in the context of it’s supposedly full auto capabilities.
In semi auto it behaves very much like a garand with a lot more deviation.
If you’re firing the FG42 in anything other than semi auto (or full auto tap firing single shots) you’re making a big mistake. Full auto is for close range or panic shooting to keep heads down, its not for killing things quickly in this, especially with the oneshots all over the place.
I’ve tried Gewehr and Garand and I don’t see a considerable difference in recoil, they’re quite similar in both stats and reality imo. I also believe the spread on garand vs fg42 is fairly similar on first shot (which is all that matters at range), at least in my experience. As you said though, these aren’t shown so we would need hard evidence to make a judgement one way or the other.
The M2 is far, far worse than the FG42, and will be even with your recoil changes, because having a oneshot vs a twoshot makes a massive difference in such fast TTK environment.
I will be doing the grind soon, because currently, almost across the board Axis weaponry is better then allied equivalent.
Also, I would say that 15 shots with 2 shots to kill is less tolerant of errors compared to 8 shots at 1 shot to kill. You need to hit the same person twice to get a kill, I only have to hit once, and can empty a mag and been reloaded by about the time the m1 could have finished its mag once.
I am preaching that the FG’s full auto is only for situations in which your enemy is as close as only your girlfriend should be. But one of the most repeated arguments againt the FG is something in the line of " FG 42 makes SMG completely useless". Meanwhile the full auto mode is only useful in very niche situations. In fact I only started to swich the fire mod when entering buildings from time to time since the hipfire spread got nerfed significantly.
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I’ve tried Gewehr and Garand and I don’t see a considerable difference in recoil [/quote]
It’s rather late here. I’ll try to remember and make some gifs after getting some sleep.
For me this weapons are the most unbalanced by bad on the game right now,the m2 carbine the most,impossible to use on full auto because when ADS(aiming down sights) the back sight puts in front of your vision and blocks you and you dont see where are you shooting,literally.
They need a rework on recoil too.
As far as I’m concerned after level 7 and obtaining the M1 Garand that’s the end of rifle replacements for the standard US soldier. Cant wait for the FG42s to replace all my G43s though.
Yep exactly. Every German player will grab as many FG42s as possible. Every American player gets an M2 on the bronze orders and goes “meh” and doesnt equip it
its worth the time invested on bronze orders x)