As you may know… whatever stats are used in War Thunder, they are directly copy and pasted into Enlisted.
The issue Japanese tanks have in Enlisted is either missing HE shells (Yes I’m looking at you Ha-Go), they are overtiered and the fact that they are just glass cannons that dont even have a good cannons. Implementation of FHA would help Chi-Ha, Ke-Ni and Ha-Go big time as well (against .50 cals)
Whats a big shame is the fact that the Japanese 37mm HE rounds have x2 more TNT equivalent than their US 37mm HE counterparts.
The issue why japanese tank gun penetration seems underwhelming is due to gaijins horrid AP / APBC shell implementation in this game, luckily i have made a bug report on it a while ago and it was finally acknowledged. https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/hLPH8HLThguu
This fix will buff Japanese Gun Performance astronomically. Suddenly the Chi-Nu which is currently at tier 4 but performs like Tier 2 tank will finally be able to penetrate M4 Sherman frontal hull armour up to 600m whereas right now, such a penetration is currently not possible, you need to aim at a flat part of the turret which takes time, whilst a sherman doesnt need to aim and shoots you first. This would bring the Chi-Nu up to par with Panzer IV F.2 which is Tier 3 in German Tree.
Im also going to post Japanese Tank Gun penetration, of what it would be after fix
But first i want to list what Japanese Tank progression should ideally look like in Enlisted
Tier 1
Type 95 Ha-Go (Add HE shell / Type 98 37mm)
Type 98 Ke-Ni (Add HE shell / Prod. Model)
Type 97 Chi-Ha
Tier 2
Type 97 Chi-Ha Kai
Type 97 Chi-Ha SNLF (Short 12cm)
Type 1 Chi-He
Type 2 Ho-I (Replace APHE with HEAT round for anti tank duties)
Tier 3
Type 5 Ke-Ho Kai (Type 2 57mm)
Type 3 Chi-Nu
Type 5 Na-To
Tier 4
Type 3 Chi-Nu II
Type 4 Chi-To
Type 5 Chi-Ri II
Type 5 Chi-Ri Production
Tier 5
Type 5 Ka-To
O-I Heavy
Ho-Ri II (The real chosen production version)
Japanese Tank Gun Penetration After Fix
Basically the sloped penetration is getting massive buff and the nonsensical 50% chance of bounce at 60 degrees will be done away with.
(AP/APBC bug report: Gaijin.net // Issues)
And that’s why adding tier V to Japan, and the Ho-Ri to be more specific, will ruin the game in the long run - it sets the precedent for adding fictional vehicles and weapons.
Personally I agree with your suggestion except of the tier V section as I strongly believe forcing Japan into tier V is a horrible idea without a single advantage.
O-I is a prototype which was built and underwent mobility tests in 1943 but was scrapped later the same year for steel since its purpose wasnt needed.
Anyways it would be more of a battle pass vehicle than a main tree vehicles
Ka-To (Na-To chassis with type 5 105mm gun) and Ho-Ri II would be the main tree tier 5 tanks
Ref.C13120839500 The National Institute for Defense Studies, Ministry of Defense, Military Administration of Ordnance, 4th Technical Research Institute Details on Prototype Ho-Ri
Ref.C14011075200 The National Institute for Defense Studies, Ministry of Defense, Military Administration of Munitions Mobilization, Production Chart of January to April of 1945
The Ho-Ri Tank destroyer went into production with 5 under production construction however the version Japan chose is the Ho-Ri II since it was based on the Chi-Ri II chassis which they already built which would fastened the preperations for production. Ho-Ri Plan III which is in War Thunder wasnt the actual chosen version.
OK, fair, unlike the Ho-Ri, the O-I isn’t fictional. But still, why ruin Japan by making it fight vehicles it never fought irl? It’s way better to add new tanks and drop the current ones in BR, more less the way you suggested.
So no vehicles were produced, right?
I know about that mock-up (which does not count as a prototype) and I’ve heard different versions ranging from “no vehicles were produced” to “5 prototypes were produced”. I can’t read Japanese, but from what I know, no vehicles in any configuration were built.
well official japanese archives say that 5 productions Ho-Ri’s did exist so…
Until Finemolds bought the archives for O-I heavy, people werent sure how it looked and were sure it never existed. But since the archives were released to the public we now know how it looked, its design history as well as the fact it was built and theres even a diary on its mobility tests.
Japanese National Archives Reference File C14010919700
By the end of WW2 the Ka-To’s prototype Hull was completed as well as 2x 105mm Type 5 Guns that would of been used for it. Its a open tank destroyer with 75mm frontal armour. As you can see its heavily based on the Na-To.
That goes for the 5 Production Ho-Ri’s as well, they werent fully completed by the time japan surrendered
If a prototype was made then it’s fine I guess. But if we consider the prototype (the premium one from War Thunder) then it could be a tier IV vehicle. It can be penetrated by a 76mm gun from the Sherman, and if the Commonwealth tech tree is implemented the way I suggested it, the Sherman Firefly would go down to BR4 where it belongs, and it would be able to deal with the Ho-Ri even more reliably.
If the UK would ever get tier V as a standalone nation (which I really hope it never will), the Centurion Mk 1 would probably be a good tank to counter the Tiger II. But other than that, I once again agree with you - as for now, no US or British tank in the game deserves to be in tier V if we judge them against the German and Soviet tier V tanks.
The APDS Penetration is based off this report which basically corrected some errors. Initially the British believed the 77mm APDS had 1130m/s muzzle velocity but it turned out it was only 1036m/s and thus they corrected themselves and updated the penetration figures. They are stated at 30 degrees.
1st Gen APDS slope Modifiers from WWII Ballistics: Armour and Gunnery
At 0 degrees = 1.00
At 30 degrees = 1.23
At 60 degrees = 3.57
77mm APDS - 1036m/s
Penetration:
224mm @ 0 Yards at 0 °
182mm @ 0 Yards at 30 ° (182 x 1.23 = 224)
63mm @ 0 Yards at 60 ° (63 x 3.57 = 224)
I honestly believe Japanese should get some sort of special mechanic added to them at BR5 instead of getting fantasy tanks and weapons. More movement speed and better charges, bigger squads, special anti tank artillery - or who knows what.
These prototypes are all looking like nothing out of WW2.
