Introduce "Automatic Rifles" as Select-Fire Rifles

Suggestions
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Introduce “Automatic Rifles” as Select-Fire Rifles

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Hello fellow forum dwellers,

I’d like to propose a historically grounded and low-effort content expansion: certain existing machine guns in the game that were originally designed and employed as “automatic rifles” should be introduced as new, separate weapons in the tech tree (for the most part) as select-fire rifles.

Basic Concept

Some weapons that currently exist in Enlisted as Machine Guns were never meant to fill that role in the real world, at least not originally and to start with. They were conceived of and used as “automatic rifles”, intended for individual use by infantry, not as sustained-fire crew weapons, but as mobile firepower for individual soldiers, a organic part of the rifleman squad. My suggestion is to duplicate these weapons into the rifle category in BR 5, with minor tweaks to match their new intended use, such as:

  • no standard MG sprint speed penalty
  • Faster ADS
  • Less Dispersion
  • Less Movement Dispersion
  • More Recoil (SF rifles have more recoil than MGs)
  • Correcting Damage from MG values to Automatic Rifle values
    As well as any other minor tweaks appropriate to the role, that I’m not thinking of right now.

This shouldn’t replace or move current MG versions, instead new versions would be created with updated roles and stat tweaks to facilitate historically grounded gameplay as well as better progression variety. Keeping lower BR MG alternatives is a great way to get these weapons into historical BR map-ranges, whilst still limmiting them in meaningful ways, and this should not change.

Advantages of This System

  1. Increased Weapon Variety – Adds more guns for variety in BR 5. Choice is always good, right?
  2. Historical Alternatives to Prototypes – Helps balance the large number of experimental/select-fire prototypes by giving players alternatives actually used in combat.
  3. Minimal Dev Time Requirements – All models, animations, and sounds already exist. It’s mostly a matter of stat tweaking and UI adjustments. No new (for now) research, weapon modelling, animating or sound design needed.
  4. New Content Path – Enables a new drip-feed content stream: as event rewards, Battle Pass weapons or gradual tech tree additions over time.
  5. Current Weapons Remain Unchanged - They’re good (terrific even) as they are, and great low BR alternatives to mass use in BR 5, this suggestion does not seek to change that.

Suggested Initial Tech Tree Additions

These should be added right away to the tech tree when this system is implemented:

  • Fedorov Avtomat BR 5 – Soviet Union

Already present as a BR 5 assault rifle. Many have suggested reclassifying it. The best solution (in my humble opinion) is to duplicate it as a select-fire rifle, keeping the current version unchanged.

  • M1918, M1918A1, and M1918A2 BARs BR 5 – USA

All three are in-game as BR 3 MGs. These rifles historically defined the “automatic rifle” concept. They should be added as select-fire rifles, ideally foldered together in the tech tree.

For unique flare they could have their bipods folded up, so they visually look different from MG versions.

  • SIG KE7 BR 5 – Japan

While not a textbook automatic rifle, it’s Japan’s most fitting candidate, and it would be unfair to leave them without one. It would offer an interesting tactical alternative in the tech tree to the Type Hei Automatic, with its full-size 7.92mm cartridge vs. the Hei’s lower damage 6.5mm, the Hei would then take on more the role that M2 Carbine does in the US tech tree.

Same as the BARs, they could have their bipods folded up to look different.

  • ? BR 5 - Germany

Germany is a challenge here, current BR 5 select-fire rifles are Luftwaffe-sourced (FG 42s) and I think a Wehrmacht alternative would be appreciated by the playerbase. I invite the community to weigh in with ideas for a more Army-appropriate option here for a tech-tree weapon for Germany (likely the only one of the initial bunch to be actually new, rather than a copy of a existing weapon). Does not need to be a current weapon to transfer, I just think Germany could do with more choice like everyone else.

Suggested Future Additions (Tech Tree, Battle Pass, Events or Premiums)

Once the base featured weapons above are in place, the following should also be introduced over time:

  • Chauchat BR 5 – Soviet Union, Germany, Free French – Premium, BP/Event/Premium, Tech Tree
  • Soviet Union (Premium; MG version already exists as Premium so maybe it would probably come as another Premium too)
  • Germany (BP/Event/Premium; Germany, ever the opportunistic recyclers of wartime gear captured and used many of these from places like France and Yugoslavia)
  • Future Free French subfaction (Tech Tree; both MG and SF Rifle variants)
  • Charlton Automatic Rifle BR 5 – Australia/Commonwealth – Tech Tree
Why? Long Version:

As someone known around the here as a bit of a Anglofile, I’d like to highlight how important this weapon would be, not just for the sake of variety, but for the sake of fair subfaction representation in Enlisted.

The Commonwealth has long played a vital role in the major campaigns of WWII, yet in terms of unique tech tree options, it remains heavily overshadowed. Most of their standout and common gear is either locked to premium squads or tucked behind events (some have already rightly pointed out the disproportionate use of Commonwealth gear as Premiums), often without a standard tech tree equivalent, or not even present for the US/UK faction at all (to name the most egregious ones: Universal Carrier, Matilda II, Firefly, Lewis Gun, Vickers K, Mosquito and the Valentine, all too common and/or iconic to not be in the tech tree).

The Charlton Automatic Rifle presents the perfect opportunity to start correcting this imbalance.

While the MG version of the Charlton was given out via an event squad, introducing a select-fire rifle version in the standard tech tree would offer a meaningful, fair-access alternative without diminishing the exclusivity of the event squad by keeping it as the only way to get the weapon into low BR. The new Charlton wouldn’t be the same weapon class, and it wouldn’t come bundled with a event squad, just a regular (but very cool and unique) weapon for us Commonwealth players to grind towards, something to look forward to on the horizon.

Beyond fairness, this also feeds directly into the “variety is good” principle that underpins this whole suggestion. The Charlton is mechanically distinct, visually iconic, and has deep historical roots as a bolt-action rifle modified into the automatic rifle. Its inclusion would enrich the games depth while giving Commonwealth players something of their own to be proud of in the select-fire rifle category.

Why? TLDR:

If we’re opening the door to historic automatic rifles filling out the BR 5 select-fire lineup, let’s make sure that door is open to the Commonwealth as well. Not just as an afterthought, but as a valued and visible part of the game’s future progression.

  • Winchester Automatic Rifle (W.A.R) BR 5 – USA – BP

Could appear as a Battle Pass weapon. The MG version exists as a BP weapon after all.

  • FN Model 1930 BAR BR 5 – Germany – BP

Could be added via Battle Pass, same as current MG version.

There’s a case to be made for SF-rifle versions of BP MGs that BP weapons tend to be quite unique for the faction, and these the new versions might be better suited as Event weapons.

Other additions are of course welcome, these are just the ones that came to my mind immediately.

Potential concern: Tech tree bloat?

A fair point, and one I’ve thought about too. In fact, I’ve previously made a separate topic specifically aimed at reducing tech tree bloat, but it wasn’t well received at the time. Still, I think most players (myself included) agree that tech tree bloat is a problem, generally speaking. The issue is that while many voice valid complaints, there’s been very little in terms of concrete ideas or broadly supported solutions.

That said, I believe this suggestion should move forwad anyway for a couple of reasons:

  • Tier 5 is the ideal place for this – It currently has far less content than other tiers so a little bload here is acceptable, and as the final tier in tech tree progression it’s naturally suited for more long-term unlocks aimed at veteran players.

  • The real issue is structural, we shouldn’t let that stop new content additions – The current system already has bloat-related flaws, but that’s not a reason to avoid adding meaningful and historically grounded content. What we need is a better tech tree system, not less content. At the end of the day, we all want a better-structured progression system.

Final Thoughts

This system offers a historically sound, low-effort, and content-rich way to improve gameplay variety, immersion, and weapon lineup balance, specifically in BR 5 where prototype rifles dominate the scene (for US and Japan specificly).

Let me know what you think, especially if you have good suggestions for a German Army and Italian alternatives! Again, these could be prototypes, as the FGs are already production weapons in the tech tree, so Germany already has “historical alternatives” (like the Soviets).

Thanks for reading, and remember: never trust a rifle that looks like it was built in a barn… unless it’s Australian.

Unrelated Matters

I have been promising that I’ll do a suggestion series for Commonwealth weapons and vehicles, I have not forgotten and it is in the works. This suggestion here was a important step in the making of the series, as I had no idea what to do with a BR 5 rifle suggestion, but then I got this idea in the shower about a week ago so here we are now. I look forward to presenting you with part one of my suggestion series “Rifles” soon(ish).

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Why turn something that has always been used as a machine gun into an automatic rifle?

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No, thanks. I am not fan of copy paste. Especially since there’s still quite huge potential for new completely unique weapons instead.

And definitely not copypasting unique stuff for which people either paid for or invested time to get them.

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Are you specificly reffering to the KE7? I explained my reasoning in the post.

The BAR is a Automatic Rifle, it’s literally in the name (“Browning Automatic Rifle”), and many such weapons exist in the game that were desinged as automatic rifles first.

Then you don’t have to use them. Isn’t choice grand?

Soviet Chauchat would be another premium, if added at all. A Charlton SF rifle would not dimminish the uniqueness of a rare low BR alternative old event reward. W.A.R and FN Model 1930 would be similarly (technically more) restricted.

So, not much loss here.

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Fyodorov’s Automat is in its rightful place, it was used by Soviet stormtroopers.

The first version of the BAR was developed as an automatic rifle, yes. But as an automatic rifle for mass armament, it proved to be not particularly suitable, so it was used as a machine gun. And there’s no need to talk about the others, at least the bipods and other features clearly indicate that IT IS A MACHINE GUN.

The SIG KE7 is a machine gun. It was designed as a machine gun and used as a machine gun. It is NOT an automatic rifle, not at all.

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The only thing about the BAR from an automatic rifle is the name. The BAR was never used as an automatic rifle like the ABC-36 and the AVT-40 or FG-42-2. It was always used as a kind of machine gun.

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For example?

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But it is the very definition of a automatic rifle though? I don’t seek to remove the current version, just add another alternative.

All technicly correct, but some nuances are missing here. Other nations LMGs usually came with two-man crews, whilst the later BARs were still solo man weapons, I believe this should be the primary factor for determining candidates of these weapon additions.

The BARs were later pressed into the “light machine gun” role, but it wasn’t perticularly well liked, being poorly suited to sustained fire missions, it was hampered by its old design and low magazine capacity. Seeing as they were still one-man weapons I believe they would still function well in a SF role. Bipods are a distraction, as they existed on non-machine gun wepaons as well (including Automatic Rifles), the presence of a bipod on a automatic rifle does not magicly transform it into a machine gun.

The WAR was designed with a bidop in mind, it’s still a automatic rifle.

As I explained in the post, I am aware that this isn’t a traditional automatic rifle, I just thought that being less strict here was warranted so that the Japanese could get a weapon of their own here was warranted.

If this remains unpopular I would compromise on having it removed as addition, I just thought being nice to the Japs was a good thing.

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@wastedwoodsman
summoning

forum history piece

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The BAR technically is an Automatic Rifle, however, if turned into an Automatic Rifle in the game, what are we going to replace the former level three MG with at level three? The Browning 1919A6? So if changed, who is going to be able to use the newly designated BAR? Rifleman? Engineers? Radiomen? Assaulters? Currently only Assaulter engineers and Assaulters can use the Assault rifles, however, with an Automatic rifle, one would assume that every soldier that carries an ordinary rifle can now carry the BAR? I also would not be in favor of moving the BAR up to a level five Automatic rifle unless it gets a 40 round magazine. Then, it is BR5 worthy.

As much as I would love to be able to field one of my nine man rifle squads in level three with BAR’s, I personally don’t see that it would be a good thing. Yes, it’s an automatic rifle, but it would be wasted at level five since I can arm my dudes with the T-20, and I doubt many people who strictly play Germans will be thrilled to be facing three nine man BAR squads in level three, which I would employ if so able. Also, the big question, what would replace the BAR as the level three Allies MG, as there is no current option, other then using a level two MG or dropping a level five to level three.

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Good questions!

My intention is to leave the current guns as is, no alterations.

This is correct, the new BARs would become BR 5 select-fire rifles in tier 5 research, meaning the usual candidates that can use SF-rifles would be able to equip this “new” weapon. They are not intended for Assaulters, nor APC drivers, tankers, pilots medics or guerrillas.

Please explain? I think a 40 round BAR would be a excellent BR 4 MG, 20 rounds appear to be the standard magazine capacity of full-pwoered SF rifles (the weaker Hei of course has 30).

The idea is choice, choice and a historically used alternative to the T20. I don’t see how the BAR would be naturally better than the T20 stats wise, but I could be wrong of course.

I don’t think they’d much care, it’d be another SF rifle, just like the rest of them, and would function no differently.

Do you also mean “level three” as “battle rating”? Because that’s not my intent, it would be a BR 5 weapon just like all other SF-rifles.

Nothing, they would remain in the tech tree as is, as I stated in the original post.

Hope this answers your questions!

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The word I was looking for was “Squad Automatic Weapon” or SAW, that’s it, the BAR was never fielded in the role as a LMG doctrinally speaking (even if they hoped it would function like one, but the US has a history of hoping weapons would function differently than the way they were eventually used for, see the M2 Carbine for example). Of course, SAW is a post war term, so what role was the BAR referred to as filling during the war by the soldiers?

Automatic Rifle.

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So, are you suggesting that we keep the BAR as a level three MG, but have a variant of it as a select fire rife at level five? As long as it is not eliminated as a level three MG. This, I wouldn’t have a problem with, although I would still like to see them incorporate a 40 round magazine because there was a BAR version that had that.
BAR as an Automatic rifle
Ahh, the glory of a level three BAR rifle squad. Just wanted to see what it looked like at BR3. :rofl: If you can’t tell, the BAR A2 is my favorite Enlisted gun.

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Correct! Current MGs kept as is, new versions as BR 5 select-fire rifles.

I’m not opposed to the idea of a 40 round BAR, in fact I’m in favour, I just think it would be better as a MG in BR 4. Though that’s not the point of this topic of course.

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The BAR is great (awesome even) as is, I don’t understand people dunking on it. I just want to spread that glory around. :innocent:

If you find yourself agreeing my suggestion, a like on it at the top would go a long way. :pray:

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No complaints here, the BAR would roughly be the same I assume at BR5, so all it would do is give another level five option, but wouldn’t shift the level five balance of power.

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Keyword “first”. After WWI the BAR was quickly rendered obsolete, so they would eventually go on to use it as more of an LMG in WWII.

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You’re not the first one to bring this up. :laughing:

It’s really a question of semantics, so I choose to go by their historical use and what they were referred to at the time.

Whilst the rest of the world were standardising on two-man crewed LMGs, the US chose to updated their existing BARs, still keeping them as single-soldier weapons. Where LMGs were focused on sustained fire, the US focused on individual fire-power. They were also still referred to as “Automatic Rifles” at the time, and their wielders as the squads designated “Automatic Rifleman”, the “Squad Automatic Weapon” would become the post war designation that lumps LMGs and ARs into one category but at the time they were considered different.

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I know what you mean, I just don’t want to see a 9 man of all BARs lol. I would love to run a BAR and a tommy in my rifle squad tho, I have a few cool squad ideas that I might post later.

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9 men with BARs, or 9 men with T20s, pick your poison. :laughing:

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