Increase the protection of the PZ-ZIF-20 armor

So, as you know - many faction features perfectly well make a uniqe gameplay. Whats why I would like to introduce to you some info ^-^

The initiator of the creation of an alternative breastplate was not the infantry command, but the intelligence department of the Lenfront headquarters. The initiative of the intelligence department was supported by the Secretary of the Leningrad City Committee of the CPSU (b) for the defense Industry, M. V. Basov, who entrusted the execution of the order to the State Machine-Building Order of the Red Banner of Labor Plant No. 7 named after him. Frunze (now Arsenal). The specialists of the Scientific Research Institute-13 who remained in the besieged city also provided all possible assistance in the development.

The main tactical and technical requirements were acceptable weight and better maneuverability (compared to the CH-42), as well as protection from bullets from German and domestic (which the enemy had almost more than their own) submachine guns from a distance of 25 meters or more. Moreover, it was emphasized that protection from MP-38/40 bullets should be provided when firing cartridges with both lead and steel core bullets.


By March 1943, the specialists of plant No. 7 had not only managed to develop their own version of the “body armor” (due to design differences with the CH-42, which was called “armor protection”), but also, with the help of the intelligence department of the headquarters and the office of the commander of the Lenfront artillery, conducted a military “run-in” on the front line of the first six batches (600 pcs.) “pantsires”, “panzerov”, “pantsyrov” (as they were called in the accounting documents). This very important work was closely supervised by the Leningrad City Committee of the CPSU(b), which authorized the gross production of protection based on the sample and shooting data without approving drawings and specifications.

Structurally, the shell protection of the Frunze plant (abbreviated name PZ-ZIF-20; serial number according to the nomenclator of the company’s products 20) consisted of five profiled steel panel shields attached with rivets and straps to a tarpaulin jacket. Initially, it was planned to wear socks under a greatcoat in winter and under a tunic in summer. All five flaps were produced by cold stamping, after which they were heat-treated and sandblasted.

The jacket was sewn from canvas or later from calico (due to the shortage of tarpaulin) by machine in two threads. The number of stitches per 50 mm is approximately 10. The back could be made of two pieces of fabric. The parts were connected to each other and attached to the jacket using steel, aluminum or copper 3 mm rivets with 3.2×10×0.7 washers on the side of the head to be planted.



The test results showed the following — the steel shell provides protection (in case of normal hits) from shelling: from a 9-mm MP-38 submachine gun with a lead-core bullet from a distance of over 20 m, a bullet with a steel core over 115 m; from a 7.62 mm PPD submachine gun with a standard bullet with a lead core over 75 m . At the same time, there were cases of penetration of the shell (at closer distances), but not penetration of the canvas bag behind it (or a slight penetration of the remnants of the bullet into the felt). This led to the conclusion that even if the shell was penetrated, the severity of the injury should be insignificant. The maneuverability qualities were assessed as quite satisfactory, “although, of course, the degree of fatigue is higher than under other equal conditions without a shell.” It was particularly noted that during the tests, a large number of cases of bullets ricocheting off the sloping parts of the carapace flaps (to a large extent protects against damage to the lateral parts of the body), which, in the absence of protection, would inevitably lead to severe wounds. In addition, it was noted that an increase in the thickness of the shell protection is undesirable due to the inevitable weight gain. But it was considered advisable to provide the shell with a lining made of felt or other lightweight and durable enough material to cushion against bullet impacts and protect against damage from bullet fragments.


The test story did not end there. The commander of the Leningrad Front, Lieutenant General L. A. Govorov, decided that it was necessary to launch the PZ-ZIF-20 into mass production, but considered its protective properties insufficient. In accordance with the instructions of the Front Office, plant No. 7 manufactured and on 06/11/1943 submitted to the landfill two copies of an upgraded version of the shell with a shield thickness of 2.5–2.6 mm instead of 1.8 mm, and therefore the weight increased to 4.8–5 kg instead of 3.8 kg

Officially, a “carte blanche” was received for the production of armored protection PZ-ZIF-20 designed by plant No. 7 for the needs of the Leningrad Front (without taking over the supply of the entire Red Army). Armored protection was produced by plant No. 7 until the final lifting of the siege of Leningrad and was used by troops not only of the Leningrad, Karelian and Volkhov fronts, but also (after their abolition) until the end of the Second World War.

After the end of hostilities, the remaining PZ-ZIF-20 (as well as CH-42) were transferred to storage bases.

So, as we can see - this armor works perfectly well against 9mm shells. So it can be buffed for this boys:

And also it will be nice to give them health perk as well, thx

@Helper And also what is quite obvious the model of PZ-ZIF-20 armor plate in the game, not exactly the same as the real, we can see it from the different sides. Maybe it was added before of publish good quality photos of PZ-ZIF-20

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This is the most Soviet main post I have seen so far

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completely agree with you…

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The German Community after hearing you wanna buff body armor even more:
Paiting

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:rofl::rofl::rofl:

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1 like for the main post vs 7 5 4 3 lol
do they glow red as well

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Yeah, the slightly dark-red light shining across

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This is probably one of the most Soviet suggestions on the entire ENG forum. I will probably even like it.

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Everything just according the sources.

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that’s right, here’s an easy way to nerf the pantsires, simply adding the weight of the cuirass to the weight of the weapon, so that without a flask and with an already heavy weapon, you can only run for a couple of seconds, so to speak, “from cover to cover,” but no more

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99aaaf06aa098621b6b2542ed84f8343

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Pre-kevlar body armour was always a failure, no matter how they attempted to sugar coat it.

Body armour can only offer limited protection against fragments (from grenades and artillery) while drastically limiting the wearer´s mobility and carry capacity.
A major issue with pre-kevlar armour is that the impact is not absorbed by the armour and is instead passed on to the wearer and even pistol calibers can penetrate with steel core.

Body armour was experimented with even during WW1 and most nations already abandoned the concept long before WW2. So were Soviets late to party or is there something else to it?

Well body armour was surely a strategic failure considering that its use peaked in 1942-43 and was gradually abandoned by 1945. (Something Enlisted gets completely wrong)
That is because even today soldiers prefer to be quick and agile over heavy kevlar armour, in most combat scenarios you are laying on the ground or sitting behind cover thus there is zero need for armour on your torso, SN-42 and PZ-ZIF-20 does not protect the soldiers neck or back, making both completely useless everywhere outside of urban combat.
However 9mm with steel core can penetrate both armour well beyond urban combat ranges.

All this lead me to believe that Soviets did not design these for combat in the first place.
My proof for this is the lack of ammo pouches:

image
a captured Soviet soldier in SN-42, there is no sign that he had carried anything for combat and he is very clean too, a sign that he was captured without a fight…
While the German next to him is obviously more combat weathered.

even on Soviet propaganda pictures, there are no ammo pouches

Here is another propaganda shot which is obviously fake
image
these guys have no ammo pouches, are perfectly clean and their clothes are perfectly ironed despite they have supposedly crawled through the rubble around them… Yeah right, only a man that never seen combat would believe this.

So if they didnt wear this for combat than what use is there for it?
Well it was worn by combat engineers whose main task was never combat, but clearing obstacles.

This is what streets looked like in major cities, rubble blocking the road from tanks and supply vehicles, carts ect… These had to be cleared by hand, a very long, time consuming, back breaking and extremely dangerous job and boredom is not the only thing that can kill you.
MG nests, snipers and mortar teams are all awaiting you, the first two can be dealt with by counter sniping as well as small hunting parties, but mortars can keep you pinned for hours if not days.

Now it makes sense, SN-42 was designed for combat engineers (actually valuable unlike the rest 99% of the red army) to reduce fatalities from artillery. While any protection from small arms fire was just an added accidental bonus.

As for how this translates to the game:

  • There is no real advantage to body armour in small arms combat, damage reduction should only apply to fragments from HE (bombs, tanks shells, grenades ect…)
  • Body armour should have been available only to engineer squads.
  • Body armour´s issues need to be represented: zero reserve ammunition and stamina reduction.

However, I think everyone would be happier if body armour´s effects were removed instead of ruined by making it realistic.

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The maneuverability was considered satisfactory — “…the shell does not interfere with fast walking, running, or crawling. There was no significant difference in fatigue.” This was explained by the uniform distribution of the shell’s weight across the fighter’s body.

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No

Sources tell - it protect for shells instead

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they called a t34 a tank even when it lacked head lights
required a hammer to shift to higher gears
used polished mirror as an optic

so were soviets crews saboteurs or where t34 poorly made
thus on paper the armor might make you superman
but in practice they might be able to stop a 32 and 22 calibers and not 9mm

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Table of comparative assessment of bullet resistance
PZ-ZIF-20 and CH-42
Weapons and ammunition used
7.62 mm PPD bullets “P” with
lead core
7.62 mm rifle model 1891/30 heavy bullet “D”
Range of 100% non-penetration (m) when firing at the breastplate
CH-42
PZ-ZIF-20
40 and more
5-10 and more
800 and more
600 and more
7.92 mm Mauser 98K carbine heavy bullet
850 and more
650 and more

WWW. KALASHNIKOV. RU

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Actually almost identical to late war British-Canadian use of the MRC body armour, almost universally carried by engineers (and the odd medic) and rarely in frontline duty, only exception to that are the airborne troops.

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This man on the video sounds very wrong on quality vs quantity when he says when quality meets quantity quality wins every battle well Battle of Kursk was exactly where quantity won same with Korean War where US had all the quality but lacked quantity against China. This entire video is just some rant. The entire German tactic at the begging of the war was on Air superiority and speed with light cavalry units and the late war German tanks actually could not perform that. While they T-34 had good mobility and where cheap and could destroy even the slow German late war tanks that had problems with the transmission and there was a lot of logistical problems since they where absolutely bad at logistics and the worst part was the lack of standardization in the German army. It was a nightmare how many type of guns and different shells they had. Its manufacturing nightmare and logistical nightmare to produce so many different types of shells.

Even if you look at the Blitzkrieg its a concentration of quantity light cavalry units inspired by nomad tactics.

Idk
Something about this sounds odd… So is it actually good or not? Apparently not when even he had to admit that its protective properties are insufficient…