Oh yeah, they are totally different.
Cant image why people think of the SS when they see the images. They are totally different.
10 Likes
The panther skin sat unchanged for 4 months, and not one single law anywhere was invoked against the devs. Furthermore, the Panzer III M or the â12 SS Panzer Division Hitlerjugendâ squad has been in the game since the beginning with a mostly accurate squad logo, and the devs have not been forced to take it down either. Therefore in this preponderance of evidence that nothing was wrong legally, your point was moot and everyone who mocked you had enough common sense to reach that conclusion. Since you also appear to have enough intelegence for basic reading comprehension skills, we assumed you were also intelligent enough to put together what we had put together, and if you had, everything you had said was BS and you just wanted to take down the panther skin for some ulterior motives. However, I will give you a chance. Did you not put together the fact that the panther skin sat undisturbed for months meant that there was probably not anything legally problematic with it anywhere the game could be played, or are you fully aware of this fact and just using the laws of other countries to shield your bad faith attempt to get the panther skin removed?
13 Likes
Why complaining about tiny ehhh barely visible insignias in first places?
According to your logic, we shouldnt care anyway because its so small. So if they add it as tiny tiny insigna, why do you complain? Its a tiny symbol after all.
Idk ask the NKVD units/ outfits in Moscow, Stalingrad and Berlin. They are⊠lets say kinda bigger than a tiny tiny tiny decal lol.
But I forgot. SS is more important for reasons.
Ahh We have SS units but we just dont âcallâ them SS aka status quo. I still dont know how a tiny tiny symbol is more porblematic than whole squads with the unit-specific cloth in a squad which is additionally a SS-squad (it doesnt matter if Df calls them SS or not. They are SS units, get real).
lol. Okay, maybe historical accuracy only counts for weapons here I guess.
12 Likes
Is this the Nazi flag 
?
Was about to name it the Nazi flag but no swastika so it cant be Nazi Germany.
2 Likes
There are also the SS uniforms in Stalingrad, but said individual does not seem to care about those either.
6 Likes
and for sell in berlin
3 Likes
What war crimes were the liebstandarte implicated in? Genuinely curious. From memoirs I have read (Erwin Bartmanns especially) I was under the impression that they were one of the most orderly and disciplined units of the war and didnât really conduct themselves like other units.
The camouflage scheme without the small unit markings is identical to the stock panther. The skin was the markings.
You shouldnât be surprised people will be unhappy with you and your post that got content removed.
2 Likes
With a modicum of honest historical research youâll find the list quite substantial.
But thatâs not the OPs point, if youâre going to make a historically accurate and authentic game, which has all manner of units (without reference to their combat record) represented in those campaigns where they actually participated, then thatâs something that needs to be acknowledged by the ppl who sign up to consume the content.
Perhaps a better analogy would be to akin to going to see a cheap B grade horror flick and then complaining about the gratuitous violence and goreâŠ
All I can find is stuff about Malmedy, which is pretty tame for the SS all things considered, and he specifically said other SS units would be more appropriate in game which I find kind of funny. Lets hear the other options lmao.
1 Like
(Tbf the website isnt accurate to what is going on in the game)
+Anyone who has a decent level of historical knowledge should be aware, that the SS fought in Normandy or at least in Berlin.
If people are scared of the SS, then they can play the three other campaigns where there are no SS units and stick to their beloved NKVD units in Moscow.
6 Likes
The Malmedy atrocities are ironically well known in the US for obvious reasons, but the Leibstandarte plied their trade far earlier than that⊠Edit if you want an easy to read general source try Gordon Williamsonâs âThe SS: Hitlerâs Instrument of Terrorâ
You will find the earliest attribution of their overt ideology to various acts from as early as the Polish campaign, where along with the other SSVT elements were reported by the Wehrmacht for transgressions against civilians, especially Jews. The Army instigated a number of cases, but Himler intervened and insisted that only an SS Court was competent to try an SS man, with the obvious outcome of lenient /exceptionally light sentences being handed down.
Shortly thereafter, in the French Campaign Leibstandarte suffered a temper tantrum at Wormhoudt falsely believing the British killed their Commander, when Sepp Dietrich became geographically embarrassed and drove within 50m of their position, but survived their vehicle burning down in the ditch, much to the disappointment of the lads, 65 of whom were later killed with grenades in a barn having surrendered.
After that there came the Balkan campaign, where I donât think the Leibstandarte got tarred with anything specific as they principally fought in Greece, rather than Yugoslavia, where serious attrocities took place.
At which point we get to the invasion of the Soviet Union, where these lads really earnt their reputation. Amongst the more notable transgressions were their actions at Taganrog where they embarked on a 3 day no prisoners to be taken spree resulting in over 4000 Soviet soldiers were executed on the spot after surrendering. All this just by October 1941, I could clearly go on but I think you get the point, that these were fanatics and behaved in a particularly unsavoury way.
This does not detract from my previous comment that their existence was a historical fact, and if the game devs are happy to provide this level of authenticity to their content then thatâs great for those who appreciate the detail.
However, as with the apparent ever growing need for warning labels for everything these days, perhaps this game needs some too to warn off those whom history may yet offendâŠ
1 Like
Wiki says all the men who were sentenced to death for their role in the malmedy massacre had their sentences commuted? How is that possible?
1 Like
Largely because irrespective of circumstance all modern legal systems require an evidence trail that places the burden of proof on the accuser. Without getting too off the track, there were some lower level guys were convicted, but later on had their sentences reduced for political reasons as the Cold War spun up, and the US needed their German allies more than justice. I think from memory one may have been hanged, but the key perpetrator who gave the order - Peiper, was given a lenient sentence at Nuremberg due to lack of evidence. Years later he was mysteriously assassinated in France.
2 Likes
It gets far, far worse, Iâm afraid. Since the Pacific campaign is coming up (Soon), you might be horrified/surprised/interested to learn that after WW2 the United States gave immunity (and stipends!) to the principal scientists of Unit 731 while incorporating data from the inhuman experiments that unit 731 conducted on the Chinese populace. This was done to âjump startâ the US biological warfare program.
I can argue it either way, but even if you can make good use of the data, there needs to be more open and frank discussion about what happened.
Iâve had mixed feelings about Von Braun for years. His rockets were landing on and around London, forcing my teen-aged grandmother to shelter in the Underground (along with thousands and thousands of other Brits).
But in our current timeline, without Von Braun, humanity doesnât get off this planet, and a veritable TON of future technologies that we enjoy today donât get developed.
Itâs almost as if weâre a complex and often contradictory species, isnât it?
Show Stats
5 Likes
Hell my English is to bad, to write what i really want to.
WW2 Game is the wrong Categorie for some Peoples.
Yet the NKVD apparently isnât a problem.
Is the execution of PoWs all you have against them? The very effective Canadian infantry were also well-known to execute all their PoWs, yet I wouldnât oppose their addition to the game. In fact, LĂ©o Major would make a great gold order troop to accompany them.
Iâm not entirely sure what your point is, but Iâll respond in two areas:
Firstly, I am against the removal of any historically accurate content from the game as long as its relevant to the purported campaign and implemented with the appropriate degree of authenticity.
Secondly, its rather crude and boorish to imply that the execution of POWs is somehow excusable or perhaps differentiable from other atrocities against civilians. Be under no illusion that WWII in the east was carried out with utmost brutality between two ideologically dissonant Socialist blocks. The crimes against humanity perpetrated by the Wehrmacht alone are well documented and the SS writ large were in a league of their own. The Liebstandarte was part of this machine and irrespective of the various revisionist historians perspectives, the facts borne from primary sources are quite clear, that they perpetrated their fair share of the gruesome harvest. Their attocities in the East were the most heinous, but they also committed atrocities in Italy, France , Belgium and Hungary. Its also noteworthy to point out that much of the atrocities perpetrated by the 12th SS in Normandy, were as a direct result from the significant proportion of the officer & NCO cadre which were drawn from the Leibstandarte.
I would say itâs quite a bit different. The 101st Airborne executed quite quite a few prisoners, and the Canadians as a whole were known to execute all of their prisoners. I donât see why the Leibstandarte are worse because they were doing the same thing except with a longer service record.