This weekend, the Soviet side has been losing games more consistently and faster than ever, oftentimes in less than five minutes. I blame mainly the discrepancies of submachine guns which play the biggest role when it comes to capturing points.
The PPD-34 gets only 6 damage points at point-blank range while the MP35 and MP40 get 8.5.
In reality, the kinetic energy for the projectile leaving the muzzle are actually as follows:
MP40: 544.4J for an average mass (6.8g) Parabellum projectile.
0.5*(0.006805kg)*(400m/s)^2 = 544.4J
PPD: 660J for a 5.5g Tokarev projectile.
0.5*(0.0055kg)*(490m/s)^2 = 660J
So the PPD has a more powerful round. On the other hand, this coupled with the PPD’s high rate of fire and the lack of a pistol grip would make it a lot less controllable than its German counter parts in full auto which would force players to switch to semi-auto mode (This feature is already in game for the connaisseurs) or go prone.
I dont see why this causes imbalance, In my opinion the PPD is the better smg and i have had no problem doing well as the Soviets, sure you can use the MP at slightly longer ranges but the damage falloff is aggressive with both SMG’s and in my opinion you are better off using a the DP or even a bolt action if your a good shot at the ranges where the MP overtakes the PPD. If your swapping to Semi Auto for the PPD you would be much better off swapping to your Mosin Secondary as the PPD only has a short time to kill because of its high rate of fire and it has low damage per bullet.
Also i dont think creating realistic damage values for infantry weapons in a free to play game would be a good idea, their is a reason why Squad, Post Scriptum, and rising storm 2 dont have unlockable weapons, its because being killed by someone with an objectively better gun that you have to play another 5 hours to unlock sucks. Instead the guns in enlisted should be balanced in such a way that they are side grades to the bolt action rifle.
The second paragraph is a really good point. Maybe imbalances due to the unlocking of better weapons could be mitigated by having tier-based matchmaking based on the numbers of different weapons equipped in your lineup, like in War Thunder.
For example, while the Mosin Carbine was certainly worse than the Kar98K due to the shorter barrel, the Soviets had a lot more semi automatic rifles earlier than the Germans.
While a projectile might have more energy, that does not decide the damage it may cause to a human body when it hits. Using energy as a damage metric is not very useful.
overal match balance has very little to do with weapon balance. The PPD box might be kinda bad, the PPD drum is kinda a light machine gun. The DP27 is much better than the MG13. List goes on. The biggest diffrence between the teams will most likely be the ammount of bots. Sometimes there are not enough testers playing to fully fill a match so some squads are lead by AI. I am fairly certain there are more german players than russian players, especially during timezones where people from russia are less likely to be playing.
PPD does suck when compared to the German SMG. I am yet to win a 1v1 battle vs a MP40 player with my PPD. And I think someone posted about this in detail about how much more stable PPD should be when firing. It’s recoil in game is one of the big reason why it is unusable at times.
As for Soviets losing, timezones play a big part. And compared to German players, there is far lesser Soviet players and the skill gap is huge sometimes. And most of the ones that I play with focus on killing rather than capping points. I’ve seen bots play better.
History had no balance, one side has won, another side has lost. Being unhistorical doesnt means unbalanced, it only means balance is achieved in a various way that you dont see, because you’re focusing on the history all the time.
People blaim mg so much on this forum because its just useless compared to any submachinegun due to its nonsense recoil in the situations where you really need to keep constant fire.
Recoil MP: no recoil
Recol DP:
Recoil MG:
Recoil PPD: much much lower recoil than MG.
So one claims russians loose because of PPDs which are actually great if you know how to use them, another claims MGs are OP, which are clearly not. Is this just a random guessing thread? Because then i would say russians loose because of the sun position.
I’ve played both Soviets and Germans, and PPD better than either of the MP is BS. You cannot fire the PPD standing up unless you do it in bursts. Even lying down, PPD has noticeable recoil while MP has next to zero. I am no weapons expert and I am saying this after seeing a couple of previous posts on the same topic, PPD should be having much lesser recoil than what it has now. The devs should make the damage consistent at least if not recoil.
I do agree that DP-27 is much better than MG-13. But you can’t equip as many gunners as assaulter. And it’s bulky. I don’t find it nearly as useful as SMGs.
They are two different class of guns. A comparison is pointless.
In the end, I don’t believe the available weapons for each side alone determines the outcome of a game. The ratio between humans and bots in each is much more important. That alone answers the original question. Germans generally have more and usually better players. Before the 3rd wave of invites and the map updates, Soviets were having an easy time winning games. The invites have brought in more players from what I’ve noticed. Not really something that should be up for discussion at this stage of game development.
And honestly to say i dont care if you have played soviets or not. You simply dont know what you’re talking about and your game skills are probably way to low to actually be able compete against MP with PPD. This doesnt means PPD is sux. It only means your game skills are very not so much…
Energy alone means very little when it comes to lethality. 7.62x25 is significantly less effective than 9x19. I’d say 6 vs 8.5 is close enough.
Situation with recoil is not so obvious either. PPD / PPSh are very much controllable in reality, meanwhile MP40 recoils quite a bit (but due to low ROF comes back on target every time).
As for balance, I’m not sure SMGs are the reason why Soviets lose. There’s a lot of factors at play here. Starting PPD (with box mags) are definitely bad compared to MP35 though.
Show me an assaulter wielding an MG-13 and I’ll accept that my comparison between the two guns are pointless.
As for skills, I have no issues accepting that I am bad. I don’t play many FPS games let alone multiplayer ones. But I am not blind to obvious facts and I am ready to welcome reasonable opinions.
Made a typo there with ‘LMG’. It should have been ‘SMG’. I apologize and it’s corrected.
PPD does suck when compared to the German SMG. I am yet to win a 1v1 battle vs a MP40 player with my PPD. And I think someone posted about this in detail about how much more stable PPD should be when firing. It’s recoil in game is one of the big reason why it is unusable at times.
Its not the PPD that is more stable, its the PPSH, which we dont have access to yet, and I have no problems winning 1v1’s with the PPD, if your using it at close range the recoil isnt an issue, if your at the distance where the MP out performs the PPD then you should swap to your mosin, i find that at the distance where PPD recoil becomes a major concern, the damage dropoff makes burst firing pointless and swapping to a secondary rifle more effective. On the other hand, if you are at close range with the PPD its raw TTK will outpace the MP. Its not that the PPD is a bad weapon its just that you MUST use it with a secondary rifle if you want to be an effective Assaulter with this weapon.
Than for a fact: the main soviet Smg is PPD with a drum (not the regular one, forget it). Its has hard recoil, because this is the way how recoil system is made in game to prevent players from using no-recoil macro (more fire speed - more recoil in random direction). Its also possible its a balance measure due to: PPD with drum and perks might give you 284 bullets per soldier going up to 960 shots per minute. This thing becomes a huge little machine gun to penetrate every house/window/ambar or even spamm at horizont shooting peoples heads off. This kind if things along with russian DP machine gun in a right hand may lead you to 200+ kills in a battle against real people.
Furthemore high leveled soldiers may choose perks, either to decrease vertical or horizontal recoil by 70% instead of additional ammo.
PPD with drum is already a beast, believe me, you definitely wont be happy seeing people running with these around if devs reduce its recoil to the same level as germans MP has it.
This one was actually filled mostly with bots, but still quite impressive:
You might not be able to fire the PPD in full auto while standing, you definitely can with the DP.
While you might be able to fire the MPs in full auto while standing, you definitely can not with the MG13.
Both sides have a gun that can and a gun that can not be used in full auto while standing. Balanced. Case closed.
They are very similar in terms of performance. The entire idea behind PPSh was to do the same thing as PPD, only much cheaper. The main difference is in how PPSh is made (almost entirely crudely stamped and welded, with high acceptable margins of error). Design differences stem from that and generally speaking don’t affect how the gun shoots. If anything, it’s the PPSh that is inferior in every way except for price and ease of production.
The PPSh has a compensator which makes it easier to shoot.
As for the OP, I disagree. The Soviet sub machine guns are really good, especially with the drums. The drums let you murder two whole squads before reloading.
I guess now we need Gun Jesus to shoot PPD and tell us if its absence actually makes a difference. To me it doesn’t look like it would, but my gun knowledge is mostly theoretical (because practical knowledge is difficult to get where I live).
You can use the PPSH in the soviet tutorial range but nowhere else yet, it has significantly less vertical recoil than the PPD. Im pretty sure the fire rate is slightly lower than the PPD but its pretty similar.
Everytime I face a PPD with an MP40, I lose, I fear the PPD, people try to use it to medium range snipe, and some do, but thats not its intended purpose, its made for close quarters room clearing combat, the MP40 has a lower rate of fire, and thus more accurate, plus it only has 32 rounds, as compared to the PPDs 71 round drum and high capacity box magazine. The DP-27 has little recoil, as compared to the MG-34/42. People say this balances it out and I disagree, seeing as the DP hits harder than the MP40, and has higher capacity.
