Idea for conciliating the the pro-subfaction camp and the pro-new nation camp : cross-tree progression for copy-paste weapons and other things

[Kriegerfaust007-live]

@Suzumebachi14

UK bought a lot and acrively used Thompson M1928. These guns are exactly the same as the american ones, so if you’ve unlocked them in the US tree, you would automatically have it unlocked in the UK tree, that’s what I was talking about.

Thats the problem The US would loose far more than the UK would keep of the US would keep from the UK and Commonwealth. most us weapons were developed and made by the us. while the us supplied massive amounts of weapons to the USSR and UK. Germany and Italy are not as bad but at the very least much of Germanys tech is already pilfered from other countries.

USSR an Japan would not have subfactions at all and thus would not have their tech tree gutted. What would the UK use for semi auto rifles not the Garand or M1 carbine or Johnson those would need to be us exclusives. sorry but this mode lets UK Italy take their toys while still playing with German and US toys.

I can see exceptions being made but letting the UK take the bren, Vickers Berthier and Besal but keep any of the BARs MGs that seems unfair. If they are separated they need to either equally share weapons or be equally separated with few exception the M1928 Thompsons could be one. Getting UK Italy gut low BR gear but pilfer high br gear because balance. But pilfer or keep gear because of history seem opportunistic.

[Patton1998]

@Suzumebachi14

Italy never got Panthers or Tigers

In reality we almost had the Tigers and we were training on them before the armistice threw everything in the air and since Japan managed to have one that they didn’t even touch I don’t see any problems with the Italians who were not only at a more advanced stage but also knew how to use it.

Partners are a different story,

while the P 43 Bis has a good chance of being introduced and we have much more information than the Ho Ri which is practically a “trust me bro”

Fun fact

Although the P43Bis is often depicted using this model, the Wot P43 Bis is the most historically accurate to the real thing.

then obviously there is the M division but I think you already know it

@Valkay

Italians did fight in the battle of Normandy as part of SS units as well as Fallschirmjäger units.

Not only were they in Normandy and kept their REI uniforms but also the RSI was present such as the 1st Atlantic Division Marine Fusiliers on the Atlantic Wall and on the island of Cezembre

[Suzumebachi14]

That is for balancing reasons, and you probably know already what I think about the Fedorov 1912.

[Suzumebachi14]

UK got a fair amount of M1 Garand that they distributed to the Home Guard. They also used the M1 carbine. But for US, there are still other options of guns, most notably, I think about Thompsons with 20 round mags, or the M1917 and M1919A4 machine guns (I am thinking about a new mechanic for these guns that I will suggest one day). But you have no idea how it makes me cringe when you have US soldiers using SMLEs, Stens, Brens or Lanchesters.

[Suzumebachi14]

I had no idea that some italians were in Normandy, because I live there (Villers Bocage is at less than 30 minutes on foot where I live, lol). I have done pretty much the majority of museums in the region, and I have NEVER heard about this. I trust you when you say that, but these guys must not have been very numerous. And often in these museums, they talk about all the nations that participated on D-Day, and there is quite a lot of them, including french commandos in Ouistreham, and it was one of the only cases where the VGO machine gun was used in combat btw.
Sometimes they also say that prisoners from the eastern front participated in the construction of the Atlantic Wall, but I have never seen the mention of italian soldiers anywhere.
Also, I didn’t know where Cezembre was, but I understood when I checked: it’s not in Normandy, but in Brittany.

[Patton1998]

@Suzumebachi14

I had no idea that some italians were in Normandy

If you’re interested, here’s a collection of photos of Italians in Normandy.

A group of German prisoners captured in Normandy disembark from a train at Kempon Park station in England. Among them is an Italian.

Prisoners captured by the English in the Sword Beach sector on the morning of 6 June 1944. Several of them are Italian

A long line of German prisoners captured after the surrender of Cherbourg in the summer of 1944, is escorted by American soldiers. Among them an Italian

Normandy June 6, 1944, captured Italians and Germans were then transferred to the USS Texas which was stationed offshore.

[Spiderkingthe10-live]

@Suzumebachi14

if a gun was used by Germany and Italy during WW2, for example the MG42, you would only have to research it once, because the progression for the research of this gun would be common to the two tree :

Let’s say you are researching the MG42 in the german tree, and another weapon in the italian tree, your progress in the research of the MG42 will be the same in both trees, because it will be the exact same gun for both nations, so if you unlock it for Germany, you will logically unlock it for Italy too.

[Suzumebachi14]

I can see why they are not mentioned now: if everytime the allies captured a few dozens guys there were only less than ten italians among them at best, then of course 80 years later, not much people know they were there in the first place. For example, the garrison in Cherbourg was fat (several hundreds at least), if there was only one italian in the group, no wonder not much people know the italians were there.

[Suzumebachi14]

Is it something you must put on your profile pic with photoshop to pressure devs tu make an italian subtree/faction ? I saw those posts on a number of new topics, I don’t know what it is yet. But I must warn you: I have never used photoshop, and I have no idea how it works.

[Spiderkingthe10-live]

Well sense I don’t have adobe on my laptop or anything else I just use the phones cropping and stickers to make and put on thw mustache

[Suzumebachi14]

Don’t know how that works either, never did that too. And I still don’t know what the mustache is for, lol.

[Spiderkingthe10-live]

@Suzumebachi14

I still don’t know what the mustache is for, lol.

Us NIEM members wear ot to spread the word that we want Italy to have more squads, weapons, tanks, basically everything.

[Suzumebachi14]

I’ll have to try putting it on my profile pic then. Bit my WW2 french guy already has a mustache though, not sure that it will be very visible if I put it on top of the existing one.

[Patton1998]

@Suzumebachi14

I can see why they are not mentioned now: if everytime the allies captured a few dozens guys there were only less than ten italians among them at best, then of course 80 years later, not much people know they were there in the first place. For example, the garrison in Cherbourg was fat (several hundreds at least), if there was only one italian in the group, no wonder not much people know the italians were there.

Well, they were very scattered and we don’t know exactly how many there were.
They’re rare to find, especially because photographers at the time didn’t even notice, so many of them might have passed by but never been captured in photos (and they weren’t always in Italian uniform).

The photographers never thought that this random photographic evidence would be useful 80 years later to discuss a historical event they didn’t even know about on a digital forum.

[Suzumebachi14]

Yeah, that’s the first time I heard about italians in Normandy. When you dive into the details of D-Day, you can see that alongside american and british ships, there were also canadian, free french, polish, norwegian, dutch, and even greek ships, but italian soldiers fighting alongside germans in Normandy ? I had never heard of this before, and I always like to find these little informations, so it really is something that not much people know. In fact, the korean guy in the german army might be more well-known than the italians who fought there too.

[OggeKing]

You get a like, as usual, just because “more subfactions good”.

If the devs don’t want people to advocate for fully seperate factions then they should give us the full subfaction-support that we deserve.

I would respect the “don’t seperate the playerbase” crowd more if half of them weren’t telling people to “play another game if you don’t like [x]” inside other topics on this forum, it seems kind of hollow to utter both statements and then also not support actions/changes that would help with player retention (and aquisition).

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Also, as a sidenote, a seperate Italian faction would be so cool, and could potentially be one of the most diverse in terms of unique battlefields/enviorments, and unique in being able to match with both sides of the war.

We’ve got the entire North African theatre (should be expanded to include Tobruk and El Alamein maps) and Stalingrad from the current game, but could also be expanded to include:

• East African Campaign (rarely covered by any video game)

• Invasion of Sicily

• At least a couple maps in mainland Italy itself, and (here’s the kicker) matchmaking with BOTH SIDES at the same time, being able to queue up with the Germans against the Allies and the Allies to fight the Germans.

[Suzumebachi14]

Yeah, that’s why I said that my concept could appeal to players who want subfactions and those who want a new tree, because I think my concept is a bit like both at the same time.

But yeah, the italian theaters of war could be pretty cool and unique as you said. I don’t think Ethiopia (eastern Africa) has ever been covered in a video game. For the italians, there could also be Greece, Yugoslavia, southern France at the beginning of WW2 and also the region of Corsica, and of course mainland Italy. The subreddit I suggested has a lot of interesting pictures of italians on different theaters of war.

[Suzumebachi14]

It is also why I said that we could apply this concept to other nations as well: Hungary, Romania, France, etc… Because you wouldn’t have to research the copy-paste guns again, because the progression on the research of these copy-paste guns would be common to all trees. A french tree could look like this: unique french guns and vehicles at tier 1-2, and copy-paste british and US vehicles in tier 3-4-5, because the standard equipment of the free french was mainly british at first, and american later.

Another fun fact: the germans also never used the Kiraly, so this would become a unique gun exclusive to the hungarian tree/subfaction.

[Kriegerfaust007-live]

UK got a fair amount of M1 Garand that they distributed to the Home Guard. They also used the M1 carbine. But for US, there are still other options of guns, most notably, I think about Thompsons with 20 round mags, or the M1917 and M1919A4 machine guns (I am thinking about a new mechanic for these guns that I will suggest one day). But you have no idea how it makes me cringe when you have US soldiers using SMLEs, Stens, Brens or Lanchesters.

You do not see to understand that is the point the US gets to give and give and the UK commonwealth gets to take and take. Also the home guard did a lot of fighting in ww2 did they. It makes me cringe seeing the us loose a lot of gear to a sub faction. Taking its own gear which is fine but than also keeping US gear. Yes its historically accurate but its also greedy sorry but no you dont get a subfaction that does nothing but loot. How generous the US gets to keep some of their own gear.

wow the us can keep using US, the Thompsons with 20 round mags, or the M1917 and M1919A4 machine guns. Nut UK/CW gets to take SMLEs, Stens, Brens or Lanchesters. So what does the US get for giving M1928, M1 rifle and carbine cause it seems like nothing. History is good but this seems more like a robbery than a split.

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None of the British Home Guard saw combat against German invaders during WWII. No invasion of Great Britain by Germany ever occurred, so they were never called upon to fight in their intended capacity.

While the Home Guard never saw combat, they still served important roles:

• Release of regular troops: By performing guard duties and other MP-style roles, the Home Guard freed up regular army personnel to serve on the front lines.
• Fostering morale: Their very existence helped build a sense of participation and national purpose among the British public, contributing to overall wartime morale.
• Auxiliary duties: They were involved in dealing with unexploded bombs, aiding at crash sites of German planes, and guarding against sabotage.

The Home Guard was a volunteer militia, originally known as the Local Defence Volunteers (LDV), comprised of men generally too old or unfit for regular service, along with younger men in protected professions. Despite never facing the enemy in combat, their purpose was clear: to defend their homes, neighborhoods, and families from a German invasion if it had ever taken place.

No Home guard weapons for a UK/CW subfaction normally i wouldnt care but a subfaction that takes all its stuff back and forgets to leave things behind it didnt make. sorry but its seems a one way breakup that hurts the us far less than the UK/CM.

[Suzumebachi14]

You do realize that the Northover projector was mainly used by the Home Guard, and that it saw pretty much 0 action, but somehow it is the standard projector of the allies in the game ?

And for the US, if you dig a little, you can still find more weapons that were adopted, you can still find the M1903A3 (that many people are asking for with only iron sights), same goes for the M1A1 carbine (lots of people are asking for this gun to be in the tree too), a bunch of shotguns only used by the US (they were the nation that used this type of weapon the most), the M2 Hyde (not used, but still officially adopted), the M42 (used by OSS operatives), the M55 Reising; the UK would not have access to many Bazooka variants either, they just used the PIAT.

If the devs are willing to do it, there is enough material for both trees/subfactions. Now one of the problems of some guns that I have cited above is the fact that some of them are in the game, but as premiums, but I have no doubt that some decent replacements can be found for those premium guns:
-The M42 ? Adopted in 9 mm, but prototypes in .45 ACP existed
-The M2 Hyde ? It is in the game, but with a 20 round mag, and given the fact that it used the Thompson mags, you can put a 30 round mag version in the tree
-The M55 Reising ? We can probably still find a decent replacement for that.
-The M1A1 carbine ? There is a metric ton of similar carbines designed by the US during WW2, the one we have ingame is the version that won the contest

I am on PC, I will post two pics from a book made by gun Jesus from my phone.

But the thing is, if people are motivated, there would be enough unique material exclusive to the US tree/subfaction.