If average player is good to begin with, but hey not my problem if they don’t know how to use their weapons, or tanks, or play the game at all…
A6 has longer reload than MG42, and Vickers feeds from a drum, not a belt, so it’s going to have a shorter reload.
But even if that wasn’t the case, that means reload speed is more important than mag size. Because then you run into this problem:
The 50 and 75 round drums are assault drums, they are designed to be used by individual soldiers, and therefore will have a shorter reload. Trade that for a belt, and you get longer reload speed, which means that instead of
You get shoot very slightly more, reload longer. Which doesn’t sound like a very good trade to me personally. But you do you, if that’s what you want, then go for it.
So to recap again, MG42 with 100rd belt: not bad, but not better
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although stupid look at one man operation of m1919 with belt at 0:19
all LMG are stupid with run and gun style, but at least germans had drum magazine for when in movement.
also i dont know if in ww2 american machine gunners used starter belts that are usually 25-50 rounds that could later be linked to longer belts. they were usually used when moving between positions. some machine gunners linked multiple belts and carried them for easy access and if they needed to operate them solo. also if you check some videos you could see that when stationary you could operate m1919 solo if you had ammo box.
and yet somehow all tanks are balanced 1 on 1 until we come to KT with maybe exception of jumbo.
and yet you see MG more in close combat and not in their intended purpose which is bipoded on mid/long range.
that would be a valid argument… if all their other parameters were the same. you are not comparing apples to apples.
nope. absolutely doesnt make any sense. more ammo that doesnt penetrate unless you are perfectly angled doesnt mean shit.
mg42 is far from unfunctional weapon. i was just countering your argument on how more bullets=better medium/long range MG at which point all nations can build HMG. like i said mg42 and mg34 have their advantages and disadvantages, just like vickers and bar and dp27 and rd-44.
there are some spots on moscow that could be for mid/long range, but still there are lots of obstacles and foliage blocking mid/long range engagement on most caps on most maps. and HMG would be more useful cause of added height than MG in prone position.
really berlin? map cluttered with junk and debris? maybe if you are talking about seelow heights
idk what is plenty on normandy. maybe conquest maps?
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So apparently they are balanced after all ?
No shit, havent seen a single lmg except vickers paras occasionally for a while.
No idea why.
well its better in cqc just like mg42 is, also I dont think the 50 is same as 100 so where are you drawing that line with the strawman parameters ?
Its balanced trade off, more speed for less armor & range engagement.
You can pen the insane armor of KT by its cupola, use that CQC speed advantage.
Yeah, its so functional that I rarely if ever see them.
Its a needed buff for making LMG’s relevant since the other options arent as nice.
Which quite alot contradicts your 1on1 comparison.
Yeah, just like cqc sherman aint that great against KT at range ?
So I assume that means theres plenty of cover to sneak your sherman to CQC engagement ?
Or IS since moscow.
Another alternative solution ?
Bridge what ever it is, as well as plenty of maps offers a spots in 2-3rd floor’s in buildings.
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maybe you missed exceptions? and is2 isnt best “balance” to KT.
oh really? then today i must have been blind when i saw vickers, rd44, mg42 and m1919a6 in my battles. and i only played 4 battles and could have easily missed some more MG-s.
what strawman paramaters? that vickers has double vertical recoil than mg42 and 20% more horizontal recoil? in situations where you are more likely to use full auto than your strawman argument of cqc sherman that has 4kph more speed despite having every other paramater worse than KT. and more useless shells that cant pen KT, but somehow it is better when there is absolutely 0 correlation to 2 comparisons.
MG42 is also usable by german paratroopers. who do you think will have more effective CQC MG if both have 100 rounds?
and i see them rather often.
what relevant? didnt you say that you dont see any LMG? should we also give buffs to soviet and american LMG at the same time if they arent relevant? why only buff mg42?
nah… i am saying that they are balanced. you are insisting on more bullets=better gun and i am giving you alternative with lot more bullets.
yes lets continue that strawman argument.
oh wow… i expected this argument. just flank it bro. when it was proven numerous times that in overwhelming majority of maps you simply cant flank gray zone camping tank.
I dont understand what you mean ? Are you saying that shermans CQC capabilities arent enough ?
Id say yes that is the most likely outcome.
And obviously we disregarded the fact you can literally jump into cqc with it because 1 on 1 weapon comparison this time fits your narrative.
And how often do these Mg42 / Vickers CQC’s happen ? I assume you have some data since you make it look like a frequent thing.
It also has more ammo.
Well I actually did say Mg42 is rather sht in cqc in bigger picture and you even agreed.
How ever since you insist to keep things on 1 on 1 I dont really see issue to extend this flawless logic of yours to other 1on1 comparisons either.
And it still can pen the cupola, you should have plenty of time to aim for it if you just use that insane CQC advantage of yours.
When you can choose FG I cant figure a single sane reason for picking up MG42.
Your fear of Mg42 being magical unicorn of cqc is quite far fetched.
I thought you just earlier said you are blind ?
More ammo for better mid range ?
For obvious reasons.
I think they already have 100 rounds
Perhaps because its the onlyone without 100 ?
ah yes the sherman cqc balance gotcha
You see alot of people running around with beretta 20mag too ?
But you just insisted to keep things on 1 on 1 ?
Just using your arguments here
Not my problem how you get in to cqc with it. Use the insane cqc advantage of it.
I mean yeah we could buff it to be better on range but im afraid that then it would be just too OP because of it super relevant cqc abilities just like Mg42 would be just too much.
No worries, remember KT is slow. You just need to use those insane cqc capabilities. Perhaps you wait till the greyzone moves to your advantage ?
Or aim for the pixel, dont really care. With these insane cqc advantages it should be more than balanced.
Also ive totally seen alot of tank on tank CQC action lately.
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it is really pointless to have this argument with you.
one one hand you are acknowledging that bullet amount isnt relevant stat, but at the same time you are asking for more bullets cause it is relevant. then you are disregarding all other stats cause the whole class is shit, but at the same time are acknowledging importance of those stats in other weapons.
somehow short range to mid range fights which make majority of the game are irrelevant to fit narrative of mid-long range fights that are mostly rare to non existent in this game.
and then you try to equate what is more or less comparable weapons in most stats with the exception of recoil, which is highly relevant stat for all automatic weapons, to highly different vehicles in strawman argument based on one irrelevant stat that you find is “better” for cqc. if you wanted to make similar comparison why not compare e.g. pz4 J and pz4 H. that has more relevance than idiotic argument about sherman vs KT.
every game. cause i use both US and german paratroopers. also i use mg42 if i dont need AT weapon cause fg has limited ammo.
Absolutely, I think they should grant more bullets just for giggles.
We were speaking of med / long range, but for some odd reason you felt necessity to bring the cqc to this discussion which is quite irrelevant for weapon that is supposed to be good at mid-long range, which it isnt.
Hence with your logic a gun that isnt exactly good at what its supposed to be but is better than its counterpart in cqc where it is bad compared to any cqc weapon aka by far more often bad in cqc than being good in those mythical 1 on 1 lmg cqc encounters.
Its balanced according to you.
→ continue with your 1 on 1 narrow minded loGicK sherman is absolutely fine due to its insane cqc capabilities.
Reminds alot of past moscow discussions of Mp40/35 & Beretta 20mag vs ppsh.
PPsh absolutely dominating the cqc, but according to some it was “OK” or even balanced because the MP’s were slightly better at range, while still being absolute trash at range.
Im quite sure they are irrelevant to subject of mid-long range engagement.
But again fine, I did mention Mg42 is shit in cqc regardless its better than your vickers in cqc.
Still, it will lose to every actual CQC weapon in pretty much everything.
But since this bigger picture did not suit your narrative you insist to keep things on Mg42 vs vickers in cqc and such encounters are probably rare as sherman cqc action.
Infact I tend to shoot to mid-long range in daily basis.
But regardless of the fact that I rarely use LMGs due to them being sht.
Cant really remember a single time I would have faced vickers on 1v1 CQC situation which is the exact situation on what you are basing your entire balance argument.
And at same time you are moaning about rarity of long range engagements ? Some double standards again or are we genuinely playing different games where you constantly end up in 1v1 situations vickers vs mg42 while I rarely even see the mg42 in use ?
And yet somehow magically you are opposing buffing attribute that according to you are rare to non existent ?
Like what the fk ?
Again depends, you can take all the recoil off the mg42 and it still wont remove the movement penalties nor dispersion.
Its entirely your logic.
You, Insist to compare things in 1 on 1 rather than considering the bigger picture.
You even admitted the Mg42 is rather sht in CQC when it faces actual CQC weapons like it most likely would.
But still for some odd reason you insist to keep the comparison in mg42 v vickers in cqc that probably is rare as the sherman cqc.
Or are you saying this your 1 on 1 comparison works only when it fits your biased views ?
M4A2 76 & KT are both last unlocks, Id say they are more than fit for this 1on1 comparison of yours.
And highlights rather well how important that CQC of yours is for item that has no use for CQC.
But hey as said countless times, its you who insisted to keep things on 1on1 comparison.
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It’s weird to see a discussion about MGs and not being (directly) involved.
well sounds like you should change that
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like i said it is pointless discussion. we are just going in circles. you are not realizing that such high recoil is relevant for even burst fire on mid/high ranges. only way for recoil to be irrelevant is for mg player to one tap everything which would defeat the purpose of the MG and at that point he could just use sniper.
i meant to actually make counter argument but i simply couldnt go past retarded cqc sherman argument.
again with dishonest arguments. last unlock for m4a2 76w was panzer 4/70(A or V) and not KT.
“No one uses LMGs at high tier”
So… you’re begging for a gun 99% of you will not use?
Good luck spraying with Mg42 on mid/long range
You will definitely be effective
well the entire cqc argument is yours, not mine.
You are literally moaning about Mg42 being better in CQC than vickers
a) How often Mg42 meets vickers in CQC to this be even relevant ?
b) You insisted to keep it as Mg42 vs vickers
I merely put your CQC logIkC in different form so perhaps you would figure out how silly it is.
I guess not.
Looks like last unlock to me, or is this some sort of higher cqc intelligency I just cant grasp of ?
For obvious reasons
Sure, why not ?
Could say it wont harm anyone since it wont magically turn in to next meta gun just because it has more ammo.
But apparently ally mains have hard time even buffing somewhat irrelevant weapons of germuts.
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They won’t let us have a different fire mode for FG so why would they let us have more ammo
i am not even going to bother with your dishonest arguments.
and here i am again…
tell me what was last counterpart in normandy? KT counterpart was is2 not sherman 76w. KT counterparts are pershing and super pershing that are already announced. so yeah dishonest argument.
and even if you wanted to make similar cqc comparison, like i said you should have tried panzer 4 H and J. both tanks and MG have ~same damage, ~same accuracy, ~same ROF, ~same armor/health, ~same speed, but one has double turret traverse/recoil. which is better in cqc?
what ally main? i am not maining anything. i play US, german and soviets. if i was ally main i would demand proper fantasy AR for them, not for german MG to stay balanced.
are you axis main for demanding unreasonable buff to otherwise balanced MGs? why is it that recoil stat is relevant in every other gun other then the MG? we are not even talking about some small irrelevant increase, but double vertical recoil and 20% higher horizontal recoil.
? you want bolt action for fg?
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It was asked for in the past to change the FG into Full Auto mode instead of semi automatic so the bots could defend themselves
Are they not last unlocks as I said ? Both seems to be BR5 as well.
Ah yes murrica suffers regardless of totally balanced & relevant CQC advantage.
Sure you do
According to ally mains everything regarding german buffs is too much.
Then again, vickers is event gun and apparently its inferior recoil stats this time fits your biased needs,
But lets not talk about that.
Its also BR5 gun, the vickers. Mg42 is BR4, so you might as well compare Mg42 to m1919a6 and suddenly the recoil aint that much after all.
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that is why this is dishonest argument. american tanks were brought from campaign where they didnt have KT. if merge happened when there was only moscow and normandy, would i have to assume that counterpart for tiger was t34? according to your logic yes.
if anything i have most games played with germany than with any other faction.
did you miss the 5 posts where i put every advantage and disadvantage of every 100 round MG? nah those stats are irrelevant, germany suffers cause 50/75 rounds MG is inferior to every other 100 round MG.
here is mg42 and dt-29 (closes dispersion/recoil stats to vickers) dispersion+recoil chart on 50m for 100 rounds.
and here is on 100m
tell me how recoil doesnt affect accuracy even in burst fire on mid/long range?
lol. poor bots. #BotsLivesMatter
bots cant defend themselves with or without auto fire.
I’m not even going to expand on how you can actually make this work because the curse of knowledge in this community is too deadly and it takes DF six months to do anything before it’s fixed or when it comes to bipods essentially never