German submachine guns need to be re-tiered

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29

Lol. The Br2 allied smg are just fine, the times i used the sten i got a lot of kills with it. If you have some problem with them is just your lack of skill.

Wanna talk about soviets? Ok. Let’s speak about how they can bypass the BR system and use an RD44 in tier 1. Is that fair for you?.

Plus, their tanks at Br2 are fine too. The T50 is great, even the T70 is good, it has better armor than the Pz 3j/1. And so far i haven’t got any problem destroying german tanks with them. Again, skill issue.

And this?

The US literally have the Grant at Br 2. What are you talking about?

Maybe you will be more confortable playing the chinse version if you don’t like this one

30

Yes, but also the M21/28 Thompson

PPSH stays Tier V; the rest have my blessing.

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31

The PPS43 has less damage. significantly less damage at a distance.

Spoiler

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On the Axis side, there is still a “Unique balance”. If the time of capturing points in 20 seconds does not allow you to win, maybe the problem in you, and not in PPP 43?

32

The allies are doing the same thing. Let’s talk about it already?

no. The damage is too low in PPS42/43

75/32 M41 in Br1. It easily destroys the Garand

33

Yes please.

Too low?. Full upgraded PPS 43 do 6.7. Full upgraded MP 38 do 6.8. The pps43 is way better at close range with the high rof and the Mp38 is better at medium range. Overall they are “similar”. Same with the pps42, that’s why it think it should be in tier 2 (the mp) to counter the pps42.

So? Is good if the grant is not meta. Yet is a great tank for that br

34

Are you saying that I’m wrong about something?
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35

(+) means smg went up in tier, (-) went smg went down in tier.

Russian SMGs

PPD34 - Tier 1
PPS-42 - Tier 2
PPS-43 - Tier 3 (+)
PPSH-41 Box - Tier 3
PPD34/38 - Tier 3 (-)
PPD40 - Tier 4
PPSH-41, Federov, AS-44 - Tier 5

I argue that tier 3 has a gradient between fire rate, mag size, and controllability. That’s why I put the PPD34/38 there, but I can definitely see arguments against it. Do note that it has a lower damage which means it will take more hits to fully kill. This allowed for different playstyles depending on how you want to assault (personally, I feel as the high fire-rates can result in a lot of missed shots, packet loss can eat shots, and you use a lot more rounds than you intend for each kill.)

German SMGs

MP28, MP34o, M38 20 round - Tier 1
MP3008, Beretta M1918, OVP M1918, FNAB-43 - Tier 2
MP38 - Tier 2 (-)
MP40, Beretta M1 - Tier 3
ZK-383 - Tier 3 (-)
Beretta m38/42, MP35L, M38 40 Round - Tier 4
Kiraly, MKB, MP43, STG44 - Tier 5

Honestly, I think german SMGs are in a good place. The mp34o upgraded is a decent SMG and the 20r beretta is nice. The Mp38 could go down though (so could the mp40 but for progression’s sake…) and the ZK could go down to be their ‘high ROF’ but slightly lower tier gun. T4 smgs are excellent and obviously the T5 stuff is there for a reason.

US SMGs
Reising, Sten, M3 Grease - Tier 1
M3A1 Grease - Tier 1 (-)
Owen - Tier 2
Lanchester - Tier 3
Every 30 round Thompson - Tier 3 (-)
50 round thompson - Tier 4 (-)

This might be controversial…but I think the US smg’s kind of suck balls. The best SMGs for usability are the british ones and even the Owen has a weird sight. All of the thompsons have jumpy, jerky recoil and are desperately trying to punch you in the face with their sights but lack the overwhelming fire-rate or mag size of say, a ppd. Expecting them to compete with AR’s (yes I know the m2 carbine exists) is kind of silly, honestly.

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36

No it dont
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37

Look at the rof now. One is better at close range an the other at medium plus the pps43 has more bullets and less recoil. That somehow make them similar enough. And im talking about the mp38, mp40, pps42 and pps43.

Also you can’t expect the same stats in one and another. Overall they (the 4 of them) are quite similar

don’t know how accurate that tool is, or why you make the comparison with the vitality perk enabled. Yet i still think the mp38 and pps42 in tier 2 and mp40 and pps43 in tier 3 are the way to go.

38

Look at TTK. It is not ROF itself that is important, but the totality of all the characteristics of the weapon.

The MP38 has less recoil.

why not? Anyone can and must use it. You have to assume the worst.

39

Look the graph you post. The pps 43 time to kill is way shorter at closer range. That’s what im saying and that’s because the rof. The target of the mp38 and the pps 43/42 is different, the mp 38/40 is better at medium range. If you want to clear a house the pps42/43 is better

You’re right. The mp 38 has lower recoil than the pps 43. Is the pps 42 the one who has lower recoil than the mp 38.

40

Thats “shots to kill Graf” not time to kill. (*edit…I see one is Time to kill graf…my mistake)

Time to kill graf is: MP 38 is slightly better under 10 meters. (player reaction time matters much more here)

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…unless you add soviet body armor…then its just straight worse.

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41

inherently incorrect
the 1918 is one of the most fun guns in the game for its BR

42

If u want to dicuss gun detail more closely in term of their hidden stats use this sheet.

43

I never said that it wouldnt be fun to use. Thats why i got 4 of them with my tankers. It simply doesnt compare with soviet tier 1 and tier 2 smgs

44

is the house more than 10 meters? You can see that MP38 kills faster up to 10 meters.

45

The house and the surrounding area. A lot of the combats are in the 50m range, especially when attacking the cap zone

46

PPSH41 box the most accurate SMG of this game… as comparison, it has 0.21 spread vs 0.64 for the Beretta MAB 38 40rnd of 0.46 of StG 44… and is BR3…

47

What? The Puma? Pz III N, Pz III J1, Pz IV F, Pz IVE? vs M3 Grant/Lee, T50, T28/E, Crusader, I think the Ally has better armor than those box with guns

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48

The easiest way to not screw up other nation tree, is move PPD34 to BR2, PPS42/43 to BR3, PPSH41 box to BR4, add Lend and lease M3 and Reisin SMG to BR1

Also move the damn MP3008 to BR1 that thing is worse than MP34(o) in every stat with the same ammo lmao

I dunno why ZKZ 343 belong to BR4 or hell the OG43…

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