Expanded suggestions for subclasses

[coldestwinter]

This post is a follow up to a post I previously made arguing for a subclass system to replace the veteran system.
Subclasses instead of Veteran Upgrades

The subclass system I am suggesting is better outlined in my previous post. When designing these, I tried to allow subclasses to expand on the current roles of the classes. This means that these subclasses each focus on a particular use for each class, allowing squads of the same soldier class but different subclasses to play differently. I also have not used subclasses to restrict or permit any weaponry for certain classes, while this could be possible it would be very difficult to balance and may make some subclasses that don’t have access to certain weaponry obsolete.

The subclasses are generally better than regular classes in terms of bonuses, some people may disagree with this approach in favor of the subclasses being sidegrades. I think this is a reasonable argument and depending on how subclasses are theoretically implemented, negative balancing effects can be applied to some of the subclasses (less health, movement speed, etc.)

Note: These are not balanced, any comments on how to better balance these subclasses or any suggestions for subclasses not listed would be appreciated.

Universal Subclasses

These subclasses are available to all classes. These universal subclasses allow players who favor mobility or firepower to choose a more generic subclass.

• Heavy [insert class name]

  • 1 extra ammo magazine, reduced movement speed.

• Mobile [insert class name]

  • Increased movement speed, climbing speed, and jump height. No backpack slot

Class-Specific Subclasses

*Note - click on the little arrow to see the dropdown list

Assault

• Raider

  • Buffs to shotguns and melee, increased movement speed

• Shock Trooper

  • Reduced hipfire sway and reload speed

Engineer

• Assault Engineer

  • Construct stationary guns faster, deconstruct enemy fortifications faster.

• Fortification Expert

  • More durable sandbags/wire, dig trenches faster.

• Logistician

  • Quicker rallies/ammo boxes. More uses for ammo boxes.

• Mechanic

  • More uses for tools for fixing allied armor, fixed tanks receive temporary reload speed and machinegun overheating improvements.

• Emplacement Operator

  • Slower overheating of stationary weapons, slightly faster reload speed of stationary weapons.

Rifleman

• Mountaineer

  • Increased Stamina and health restored by med pack, bonuses to bolt action rifles

• Spearhead Infantry

  • Bonuses to charging and melee, increased sprint speed

• Mass Assault

  • Slightly increased capture weight/objective arming speed

Medic

• Field Doctor

  • Healed soldiers have more health restored, healed soldiers temporarily receive the extra stamina effect currently provided by the flask

• Quartermaster

  • Med boxes also restore a small amount of ammo

Radioman

• Smoke dispatcher

  • Faster smoke artillery cooldown, longer cooldowns for other forms of artillery

• Signal tapper

  • Enemy rally points are marked when the soldier is within a certain range, longer cooldowns for all forms of artillery

Sniper

It would be possible to create a sniper subclass that doesn’t appear on the killcam after a kill, however it seems very overpowered so I haven’t included that in any of these subclasses.

• Recon Specialist

  • More descriptive marks? Marked tanks display tank model. Soldiers of this subclass automatically mark tanks and enemy fortifications upon sight.

• Infiltrator

  • Increased jump height and climb speed, less visible to bots to get in better positions.

• Marksman

  • Faster reload of bolt action rifles, less recoil for bolt actions

Machinegunner

• Light Machinegunner

  • Bonuses for light machine guns, increased recoil with heavier machine guns and some stationary weapons.

• Suppression Specialist?

  • Requires implementation of a suppression mechanic

• Fortress Machinegunner

  • Reduced dispersion/recoil when braced, higher recoil when not braced

Mortarman

• Barrage Mortarman

  • If a squad contains two Barrage Mortarmen, they can mortar a selected point at the same time. Mortar ammunition is reduced.

• Smoke Mortarman

  • All explosive mortar ammunition replaced with smoke ammunition, increased mortar firing speed.

Tanker

Already has a form of subclasses (driver, loader, etc.)

Flamethrower

This class was especially difficult to create subclasses for as there aren’t many different ways to play a flamethrower. I am not very happy with these subclasses as they alter the weapon and not the soldier, which was not the goal when making these subclasses.

• Bunker Burner

  • Increases range of flamethrower, halves flamethrower ammunition

• Area Denial Specialist

  • Ground fires created by the flamethrower last longer, flamethrower has reduced damage

AT Gunner

• Siege Attacker

  • Additional damage to enemy fortifications by AT projectiles

• Saboteur

  • Reduced damage taken from TNT, increased movement speed.

Faction-Specific Subclasses

These subclasses are less developed than the subclasses posted above, they are more of a proof of concept that individual factions could have their own unique subclasses. Differentiating each faction and potentially offering unique playstyles for certain factions.

Germany

• Sturmtruppen (assault)

  • Bonuses to fighting in or near objective area. Different variation of shocktrooper assault subclass.

• Panzergrenadier (rifle)

  • Bonuses to fighting near vehicles/Combined arms pushes. Allows tanks to contribute to capturing
    objectives? Different variation of mass assault riflemen subclass.

• Gebirgsjäger (rifle)

  • Bonuses to bolt actions. Different variation of mountaineer subclass.

• Ostruppen (rifle)

  • It would be interesting if they automatically scavenged for weapons, less capture weight. Different variation of mass assault riflemen subclass.

• Volksgrenadier (engineer)

  • Bonuses to building AT and AA guns. Slightly different version of fortress engineer subclass.

• Sturmpioneer (engineer)

  • Bonuses to stationary mg guns and speed. Slightly different version of Assault engineer subclass.

• Jager (sniper)

  • Different variation of recon expert sniper subclass.

Soviet Union

• Red Guard (assault)

  • Bonuses to fighting in or near objective area. Different variation of shocktrooper assault subclass.

• Conscript (rifle)

  • It would be interesting if they automatically scavenged for weapons, less capture weight. Different
    variation of mass assault riflemen subclass.

• Penal soldier (rifle)

  • Different variation of mobile riflemen subclass.

• NKVD operative (assault)

  • Different variation of shocktrooper assault subclass.

USA

• Army Ranger (rifle)

  • Different variation of mobile riflemen subclass.

• Marine Raider (assault)

  • Bonuses to fighting in or near objective area. Different variation of shocktrooper assault subclass.

• Rear Echelon Infantry (engineer)

  • Bonuses to building AT and AA guns. Slightly different version of fortress engineer subclass.

• Pathfinder (sniper)

  • Different variation of recon expert sniper subclass.

• SSF Commando (assault)

  • Bonuses to silenced weapons. Different variation of mobile assault subclass.

UK

• Commando (assault)

  • Bonuses to silenced weapons. Different variation of mobile assault subclass.

• Royal Engineer (engineer)

  • Bonuses to building AT and AA guns. Slightly different version of fortress engineer subclass.

• Foot Guard (assault)

  • Bonuses to fighting in or near objective area. Different variation of shocktrooper assault subclass.

Italy

• Guastatori (rifle)

  • Different variation of mobile riflemen subclass.

• Bersagliere (assault)

  • Different variation of shocktrooper assault subclass.

• Alpini (rifle)

  • Different variation of mountaineer subclass.

• Arditi (assault)

  • Bonuses to fighting in or near objective area. Different variation of raider assault subclass.

Thanks to @Myrm1don @61839981 and @Scav_Sergei for your constructive comments on my previous post. I have added some of what was suggested.

[GuardianReaper0]

I MASSIVELY agree with this for the most part. A few small things:

1. Fortress Machinegunner- needs to also apply to (H)MG nests.

2. While unique subclasses may be cool for faction specific ones, I think the focus needs to first be on the rest of the suggestion. Especially as while reading through it ssems like some of the Faction-Specific ones may be quite gamebreaking in the right environment.

3. I don’t think any class/ subclass should get a buff to capture or hold. The ONLY thing that should get a buff in that regard are the gold order troops, and even then it would only count as 2 troops rather than 1.

4. i think through the subclasses that you are suggesting may be a great way to implement something that I have talked about a lot: the capabilities of infantry as a whole being able to break down engineer fortifications by hand. I think that that obviously the engineers would be capable, and more-so the assault engineer subclass, but also Assaulters and Riflemen should have subclass options for that, and otherwise remove that ability from other generalized infantry. It would greatly help balance out your options of subclasses, as well as make defenses (and their destruction) more important to the game.

[Adamnpee]

@GuardianReaper0

The ONLY thing that should get a buff in that regard are the gold order troops, and even then it would only count as 2 troops rather than 1.

That would be very p2w since you can just buy them for gold.

[coldestwinter]

Thank you for your critique.

@GuardianReaper0

While unique subclasses may be cool for faction specific ones, I think the focus needs to first be on the rest of the suggestion. Especially as while reading through it ssems like some of the Faction-Specific ones may be quite gamebreaking in the right environment.

I found it difficult to come up with worthwhile and somewhat balanced faction specific subclasses without doing some intensive research. Its like I said in the post, those subclasses are more of a proof of concept than anything else. Hopefully in the future more ways to play the game will be possible and these can be fleshed out.

@GuardianReaper0

I don’t think any class/ subclass should get a buff to capture or hold. The ONLY thing that should get a buff in that regard are the gold order troops, and even then it would only count as 2 troops rather than 1.

That is reasonable, I thought it may make sense because one of the major uses of riflemen squads in this game is for point control. It seemed like it may make sense to reward using riflemen for one of their main uses as I tried to design the subclasses to reward focusing on different uses for certain classes. But, it may be insanely broken so its probably not a good idea.

[coldestwinter]

I agree that giving gold order soldiers such a bonus would be p2w. Hopefully the devs can find a balance of making gold order soldiers more worthwhile in the future. I think they should just follow the gold order vehicle template and make the gold order soldiers have at least something unique about them cosmetically, maybe a decal on the helmet or some patches on the uniform.

[GuardianReaper0]

@coldestwinter

I agree that giving gold order soldiers such a bonus would be p2w

Yes and no. While you CAN buy them, you can also earn them, as I’ve earned pretty much every single one that I own. You can get them from challenges when you get lucky on one of the login streak bonus boxes. (Same with gold orders for weapons and vehicles.)

I do wish they would revise the system a little bit though to where these types of crates appear more frequently the longer your login streak is, as it would REALLY incentivize and reward even the free to play players.

As far as balance, I don’t think counting them as 2 soldiers would be game breaking by any stretch. It’s not like you can get duplicates of those soldiers, they are limited. You will rarely have more than one or two in a squad, if any. Giving them just a touch more power could let them counter out for losses that they sustained just getting to the point.

[mergenthewise]

I have an idea for mountaineer and jagers and also about snipers marksman subclass;
In isonzo, there is a mountaineer class also.
I suggest give jagers iron sights only but with increased aim focus lets say %20 more zoom perk as default.
Some people ( me too) like to use iron sights hunting more than sniper scopes.
And for mountaineers; give them increased bolting speed and less recoil perk as default
I dont think snipers need marksman subclass it can be cooperated into mountaineer easily
And suggest japanese sniper subclass i suggest rope climbing ability to trees with bush cover.
Japanese snipers loved that tactics in ww2

[IceySmooth]

Ooooh, I have to say some very cool ideas in Op and thread!

Would be nice for a upgrade to current skill system!

[SexyTent]

Please gastano, don’t lock this thread!

[robihr]

kinda funny after this

Why don't you make it so that old threads are automatically locked?

I think most any internet forum has a feature that locks old threads after a certain period of time so that they can’t be posted on, why not here? It would prevent people from accidentally using old threads and the moderators wouldn’t have to go through the effort of monitoring them…

[IceySmooth]

Well post merge and the changes there in I think this idea is still relevant, brings something new to the table; I dont think locking and reposting serves a purpose well

[SexyTent]

I agree, but the moderator rules seem to be to lock old threads when they resurface.
This thread will be locked shortly…

[coldestwinter]

Thanks, I still really support this idea. I think its even more relevant now that some players have extra squads for some of the classes. These extra squads could be specialized with subclass soldiers to make them all distinct.

[IceySmooth]

Alot of similar games do give special skills to soldier classes, the RPG aspect of these games is quite liked, and just as much in Enlisted. For example enemy mine detection by engineers has been asked for months by community.

I really like the sniper detect spawn points idea, as well as many others,
I would really like to have a way to add further skill perks to our already loved and leveled up soliders, this seems like a way to explore that.