Estonian SMG. Tallinn arsenal - Estonian MP-18

Hello, everyone. As you know, some weapons were not distinguished by any unique design. The Estonian submachine gun Tallinn-Arsenal is one of them. It is a little modified copy of the existing model, but was characterized by an interesting history. German in Estonian. Tallinn-Arsenal submachine gun
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General view of the Estonian Tallinn Arsenal.

HISTORY OF TALLINN ARSENAL

CHANGE OF MIND

Up until the mid-twenties of the last century, independent Estonia did not have its own submachine guns. There were only a few German-made MP-18s. There was no development of its own weapon of this class, and it was hardly even planned. But on December 1, 1924, the Estonian underground, connected with the Comintern, attempted an armed uprising. Several military infrastructure facilities were attacked. One of the targets of the Communists was the military school on Tondi Street. There they planned to seize weapons for further uprising
. However, the plan did not work. One of the cadets of the school managed to take a convenient position and prevented the attackers from breaking through to the second floor with a dense fire. While he was holding the defense alone, his comrades had time to arm themselves and come to the rescue. The cadets successfully fought off the attack and prevented the loss of their weapons.
The cadet on the second floor of the barracks was armed with a “9-millimeter automatic pistol.” The specific type of this item is unknown. According to the popular version, the underground soldiers were stopped by fire from an MP-18 submachine gun.
The battle for the second floor of the school clearly demonstrated to the Estonian military and the Estonian leadership the power of automatic weapons with pistol cartridge. It was decided that the army should produce its own submachine guns.

THE BEGINNING OF INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT
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The external differences between the two models of the MP 18 and the Tallinn Arsenal are minimal.

In 1925-26, the designers of the Tallinn Arsenal developed the first Estonian submachine gun design. Estonian is a proud word here, in fact
is a copy of the German MP-18 - just with its own improvements.
The new weapon was named Tallinn-Arsenal or Arsenali PĂĽstolkuulipilduja (Arsenal submachine gun), after the name of the developer.
The new model was successfully tested and recommended for adoption. In 1927, a serial production order was placed for the Estonian Army. A few months later, the first serial production units were shipped to the customer.

Design features and characteristics

There is not much to say here, as the Tallinn-Arsenal is basically an MP 18 with minor modifications, which had very little effect on its performance
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The country’s leaders get acquainted with the new Tallinn-Arsenal

Like the basic model, the Tallinn-Arsenal was a machine pistol - an automatic weapon for pistol cartridge, using the free-floating bolt principle. At that time, the FN M1903 pistol, chambered for the 9x20mm Browning Long cartridge, was in service in Estonia. To unify the small arms, the army decided to convert the German submachine gun to the 9x20mm Browning Long ammunition. A new 40 round long box magazine was also made for the new cartridge.

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CHARACTERISTICS Tallinn-Arsenal
Type: submachine gun
Production time: 1926-1940
Weight (without ammunition): 4,275 kg
Length: 809 mm
Caliber: 9Ă—20
Cartridge used: 9Ă—20 mm Browning Long
Trigger type, single-action/automatic fire mode
Rate of fire: 600 rounds per minute
Initial bullet velocity: 365 m/s
Aiming range: 600 m
Magazine capacity: 40 rounds

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Soldiers in the camp.

DIFFERENCES FROM MP 18

The original chamber was lengthened to accommodate the new 20mm cartridge case
The barrel was lengthened to accommodate the new 20mm cartridge case.
Barrel was lengthened to 210 mm,
Outside of the barrel, doles were made for better cooling.
On MP-18, the barrel was covered with a casing with many round shaped holes. The Estonian shroud had several longitudinal rows with three oval holes in each row.
The shape of the wooden stock is different from the MP 18. No pistol protrusion on the neck.
According to some information, the Tallinn Arsenal had a firing mode switch, with two firing modes - single and automatic.
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PRODUCTION
The submachine gun was adopted into service in 1927, and the order for serial production of such a weapon appeared at the same time. The Estonian army needed a large number of new automatic weapons, but due to the limited budget, they had to restrain their desires. Later a new order came, from the Estonian police.

The production of submachine guns did not last long, only a few years, and was finally phased out in the early thirties. During this time, no more than 570-600 submachine guns of the new model were produced. This number of weapons did not seem unacceptably small.
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Tallinn-Arsenal in the museum.

Estonia tried to sell its “development” on the international market. However, no orders were forthcoming, and the only buyer of the Tallinn-Arsenal was Estonia itself

SERVICE IN THE ARMY

The Tallinn Arsenal machine guns were distributed to army units and police departments. Due to a large shortage, they could not become a mass weapon in the Estonian army

However, subsequent use revealed problems:
The new magazine was unreliable, there were problems with ammunition feeding
The new barrel cover did not help cooling, but made production more expensive.
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In the end, somewhere in 1930s the Tallinn-Arsenal design simply became obsolete, as well as the design of its ancestor MR-18, the World War I machine pistols were inferior to more modern weapon designs and could not really compete with them
Therefore, in the end Estonia adopted the Finnish Suomi. At the same time they signed a contract for the supply of imported weapons. Before joining the USSR, independent Estonia managed to receive 485 ordered Suomi KP-31 submachine guns. Tallinn-Arsenal decided to sell off the old models to the rest of the world.

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Finnish Suomi submachine gun

A couple of them were sent to Latvia. One was sent to Japan. The plan was simple, Estonia wanted to interest foreigners and sell the already unnecessary and obsolete weapons. However, nobody needed them, and then they were all bought by some private company, what kind of company it was, what was its name, why did it need submachine guns - history is silent

Some number of Tallinn-Arsenal - from dozens of pieces to all the remaining products, soon
lit up in Spain, in the hands of Republican fighters. How they ended up there is not known. The last mention of Tallinn-Arsenal also dates back to the Spanish Civil War, and all the remaining pieces were scrapped, although a couple managed to survive and end up in museums, where they still lie today
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Tallinn-Arsenal in Spain
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Italian tankers in Spain.

What do you think about this submachine gun? I think on 1 or 2br, as an event weapon or with some event/premium squad, it will be good. Just who to give it to? USSR? Germany? I think it would be just fine for the USSR

7 Likes

I think it could be added as an Estonian Volunteer or SS squad for Germany

As a USSR counterpart they could add an Estonian Riflemen squad with an Estonian Mosin

It would show the duality of Estonia during this war. Stuck between both sides

5 Likes

i dont think that add another Mosin for USSR is good idea.

Well on one hand Germany already has MP-28, which is basically what the Estonian SMG is, so makes since to give it to the USSR since they don’t have anything like it.

But on the other hand, I think Germany already has a premium squad that is equip with a Finnish Mosin variant, so why have two premium squads for Germany that basically have the same gun? I guess they could give it as an Event Squad so that way people that don’t have the old Finnish Mosin squad could instead get the Estonian Mosin squad.

1 Like

It dont make sense, i dont want another reskin for USSR. We already have useless premium Mosin rifle 1944.

Personally I would prefer a fraction of Finns and Estonians to add this SMG to the game, there is also the rarer Tallinn Arsenal M38

1 Like

There’s nothing wrong with variants. So many weapons in game are variants and models. It’s neat for variety.

Plus its meant to be a unique squad with a unique weapon for history. It represents the Estonian Rifle Corps of the Red Army

I’d prefer to see an independent Finland in the game too :finland:, but Estonia… They don’t have enough equipment and weapons for a full faction, even if you consider prototypes. And I’m already making a post about the Tallinn Arsenal M38

1 Like

Yes, variety is great, but when it comes to event and premium units or weapons, you want something unique and useful, not just another reskin.

In fact, many Estonians served with the Finns, so they would fit well in a Finnish tree like Italy with Germany. A similar case would be if they wanted to make a Hungarian faction, the best thing would be to put them with the Romanians and Czechoslovaks.

It would also be possible to see Swedish equipment in a Finnish faction if it does not have much armament, especially tanks.

2 Likes

Finland would be a sub faction at best like the UK currently is in the allies. This is not world of tanks. Unless we throw out history and just have the goodies and the babies. We are not getting any more factions not to mention Finland would be at least after UK Italy and France to be made into a faction.

3 Likes

Finland is probably never coming to the game as its own faction (Maybe as a subfaction for Germany). But honestly I think it could be done. Darkflow would just need to either fill out the Finnish tech tree with a lot of captured Soviet vehicles (which isn’t historically inaccurate), or add them as a small tech tree faction that doesn’t have a full 5 BR’s.

No na no you would need at least 2 ,to 3 of each type for each br so no Finland would struggle to get to br3’without a lot of gear from USSR. Which as long as it is not copy paste would not be horrible. Again enlisted is not war thunder I don’t want to see a mix of a handful of original weapons, nearly identical variant produced under licence and actual identical guns.

USSR getting this would be wierd to say the least , anyway I would like to see it in German hands other than that USSR has very huge amount of SMGs made before and during the war so yeah if DF wanted to add new SMG to USSR they could definitely add domestic ones also some of those SMGs saw use just as an example PPZ saw service in hands of soldiers as its trial .
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First prototype of Zaistev SMG (PPZ) second prototype had a folding stock. The first prototype was delivered to one rifle division for field tests I assume.

2 Likes