Well I guess that explains the hardships soviets encountered.
With what logic ? PPsh is lvl 30 unlock, and mkb is 38. Kiraly is lvl 35, Id like to think its because finally someone at DF thought maybe a lvl30 unlocked beretta M38 with 20mag isnt exactly worthy unlock in comparison to PPSh.
This ww1 wonder weapons was added exactly same time as Mkb42.
And theres little to none evidence of its usage after winterwar 39-40.
You mean like the fedorov that definitely wasnt issued after winterwar ?
Or AS-44 that doesnt even fit timeline of berlin ?
In realistic standards or with the little bit of boost of stalinium ?
Fine
Not exactly sure how germans have dominance in planes in moscow exactly ?
Unless something dramatical has happened in past months the Il-2 was by far the best plane of that campaign.
Quite sure you began the arguments of fedorov “fitting” better regardless of its use after 39-40 has little to none evidence.
Yep, it does. Though it does not explain why germans have better airforce, but when they have worse tanks - they are instantly given a better tank. When they have bad guns - they are instantly given better guns that do not bloody fit the timeline. But it does not work vice versa.
Who the hell cares about your levels? Players are not being added in battle according to levels of the guns they’ve unlocked. There should not be any kind of Kirali, Lahti or STG and PzIV-F2 in Moscow. Easy as that.
There’s no evidence MKB was even drawn on paper when battle of Moscow occured. There’s no evidence of Kirali or Lahti or Suomi or IV-F2 or MG42 in Moscow. Want to keep mentioning gun that really existed for almost 3 decades by 1941?
I mean, obviously, that nobody would ever add Fedorov if STG was not added. And it was added only because ubermensch were whining they could not spray (with lousy damage, lower than MP40 has, while in reality should be opposite) like guys with PPSh.
Just like MKB in Moscow. Should i even explain the obvious for the third time? Nobody needs lame AS-44. It was in some lame call of duty (vanguard i guess) and devs decided to add this crap too for sake of making money.
As far as i’ve noticed there are no stalinium boosts necessary to make mom’s ubermensch whine that 71 bullet drum (that needs 1/3 of this drum to actually kill smb) is too much overkill.
Pe-2 flies like piece of crap. Germans have 250 kg bombs almost on everything, they have 500 kg bomb, while soviets have UBER 100 kg bomb at the middle-end of unlocks tree.
It still carries only 50 kilos. The only soviet plane that makes sense in Moscow. Capable of shooting down biplanes btw. Another overkill, just like T-34.
Give IL - 100 kilos, and Petlyakovs and SB-2 250-500 and suddenly airforce would be balanced. But when its about balancing soviets to fit germans balancing machine brakes, it only works when you need to give something to germans.
Are you sort of slow or smth.
Fedorov ALREADY EXISTS by 1941. MKB is not even drawn on paper yet. AS-44 EXISTS in metal by battle of Berlin, though it did not participate (so is more like Kirali, Lahti or Suomi).
Uh, entire soviet “professional” army being annihilated due to them having better equipment ?
Lucky, they dont. Since we all know some IL-2 are still flying today in skies of ussr.
Instantly ? If I recall the T-50 ( another mass produced USSR tank ) controlled the fields of moscow all the way untill t-34 came to take its place.
This is like a year or more and only when the F2 was added the germut tanks had chance in tank on tank combat.
Sure these days they have toned down the effectiveness of stalinium, but the era of stalinium lasted over a year.
So you say germuts gets instantly something better ? Sure buddie.
Yes, its one of the milestones of DF granting the by far superior M38 ( 20mag ) against PPSh.
By that time due to ppd38/40 the soviets had already better smg’s.
Quite sure people were suggesting to add KP31 as counter for both of those SMG’s.
But due to fact that every faction have to have “unique” features such as high capacity smg’s germuts could not get Kp31 that actually was used during battle of moscow.
Just like when germuts got the assault rifle which pretty much was the only faction to wield one, soviets did not get one because “Unique variety”
They just got the fedorov & AS-44 which definitely fits in any timeline.
Like above ?
Well I do, I find it quite stupid that soviets get high capacity smg’s from beginner levels.
While the first smg that can actually compete with them in germut camp unlocks at 35.
Dont really have to be a rocket scientist to figure out whats wrong with this equation.
Sure they dont, still is quite unfair that one has to grind 35 lvls to get first smg that can compete with soviets smgs that unlocks earlier.
Nor fedorov, t-50 and the soviet equipment was quite shit so the lazorbeams we have ingame doesnt exactly portray them IRL.
First prototypes were done 1940 if I recall.
Or t-50, fedorov and what else.
Doesnt really change the fact that it was never used in moscow.
T-50 ?
Not exactly sure what you are even trying to say here, quite sure the spray & pray capability weapons all belong to soviets due to muh unique variety.
By all means I find quite contradicting double standards here.
Well when you put it that way it kinda makes sense.
If you are referring glorious soviet players being so insanely sht that they need 1/3 of a drum to get kill I kinda do agree they can have theyr crutches.
But the obvious downside here is that there is actually capable players too that indeed are very effective with said crutch guns.
Thanks for those 250 / 500kg bombs that has radius of detpack, and has to literally land inside of enemy tank to get a kill.
Shame, soviets have to suffer with point and click rockets that they unlock with first plane.
And conveniently forget that rockets that are pretty much just as effective ?
For all I care you can have 1000kg bombs since they are nerfed a shitload. As long as germuts get the instakill rockets as well.
Could ask exactly same
And never used after winterwar.
So you accept another fantasy weapon over other ? Some double standards comrade ?
Prototypes were made 1940
Nope, it didnt. But conveniently this is fine ? But MKb42 isnt because the prototype is from 1940 ?
Double-standards much comrade ?
Well actually every each of those weapons you mentioned did actually see combat in eastern front.
Király 39M and 43M were produced for the needs of the Royal Hungarian Army only so it makes sense that they didn’t need millions of them when the Hungarian peaked around a million men.
The 10 000 reference number you find on wiki are the documented production, Hungarian archives and documentation was largely destroyed during the war thus the exact number of produced Danuvia submachinegun is unknown (just like Mas-38) however estimates can be made based on the production power of the Danuvia factory, the needs of Hungary army and the remaining number of guns today.
Experts estimating the actual production to be around at least 40 000 guns.
I know, not complaining about the KT existence also, is just that people like TUSO get on those dumb arguments about Germany suffer and Soviet bias and forget the amount of weird shit the game does in favour of Germany to maintain balance.
Edit: and here he appear with his senseless rambling
Yes I know, ppsh v beretta m38 (20mag) for example is perfectly balanced because large drum mag makes u waste bullets and only 20mag makes you tacticool supreme overlord.
And tanks, while you were right that they adjusted the stalinium coating in past few months I find it still perfectly balanced that you only have to “Flank” frontally a t-50 & 34 to get kill on them with certain pz3 class tanks.
I suppose this is also balanced because “frontal flanking” is OP or something.
Absolutely, the m38 ( 20mag ) is perfect example of DF doing weird shit in favor of germans.
Sure at early game level of 38 ? You get the F2 that was finally capable to fight soviet tanks frontally without pixel aiming and had APHE which fair share of pz3’s were lacking.
I suppose the lack of APHE is also there just to favor germans, since with APHE you could actually have a chance of 1 hit kill on enemy tank but with AP you can prolong the enemy suffering by needing multiple hits with.
Germans had superior strategy and experience of implementing it defeating whole europe, fighting against army that was on par only with the Japanese in matter of army skills.
But yea, lets blame it on equipment. If equipment was so shitty, why you had to cry for Sturmgewehrs and F2 to be added in Moscow, lel. Not to say KV and 34-57 were not even added for sake of balance in Moscow.
I do not know whose retarded idea it was to even add T-50. But it certainly was something for balance sake, as its a better armoured BT in fact, while T-34 has 76 mm cannon. So looks like T-50 was added only to save german asses once again. Unfortunately devs can’t get things straight, make proper disbalanced trees with pros and contras, instead of mirroring every next weapon.
Yep. It was damn good idea.
They put some rare useless gun to the last level if unlocks, encouraging use of german weapons like MP40, having lousy beretta like a unique gun for those who like “style”. While soviets, who have better variety of automatic guns are forced to grind more to get an ordinary mass produced PPSh. Everything for germans once again. But they whine, why PPSh is countered by Beretta. It is not countered. Its placed on the same level of unlocks. And when this existed it was proper policy of balance. Germans could grind with MPs, while soviets had to grind to get a PPSh. Instead we got a lousy campaign where soviets do not use PPSh, because they have AVT, AVS and Fedorov, and germans don’t use MP40 because they have STG, MG42 and Kirali. Because retarded mirroring forces to use last weapon in unlocks, as the best one is the last one.
Not in battle of Moscow.
Fedorov fits battle of Moscow timeline, AS-44 fits battle of Berlin. I see no problem of adding them if you add Kirali, Suomi or even STG that even wasn’t drawn on paper.
I do not know how much long the obvious should be explained.
Maybe problem is SOVIETS MASS PRODUCED HIGH CAPACITY SMGS AND GERMANS DID NOT?
Same applies to semi automatic rifles, automatic rifles and better armoured tanks.
Every time you mirror germans to soviets in Moscow its obvious disbalance towards soviets unless its about airforce, artillery and machineguns. Also would have been nice to see germans have halftracks, and soviets have none.
I won’t read further, it seems pointless.
Speaking of MG 42 its not the MG that is so annoying. Its retarded squads of 5 machinegunners. Such guns should be limited to 1-2 per player and given only in exchange of gold orders. This applies to all kinds of prototypes, weaponry from different theatres, small series or outdated guns. Instead we have most of them in free access or in technology tree.
Never asked either one. Infact I did suggest Kp31 that
a) was there
b) would be perfect counter for ppsh
F2 I also never asked, mere APHE would have done wonders but you know, for balance sake both factions cant have ez to use equipment.
Infact I think someone suggested 88 as engi buildable but I suppose that would have been too EZ as well.
After all we dont want this game to be too “demanding” for soviets.
BT7’s, t28 and what else soviets had by that time had no issues fighting against german tanks.
Infact both sides had rather fair chance to fight against each other.
T-50 changed this entirely favoring soviets, so it definitely wasnt added due to “balance”
Yes, soviets unlocks the first drum ppd If I recall at level 11, which is by far better than any germut smg to that point.
Next comes ppd40 which is somewhat improvement to earlier ppd at level 26.
And then ppsh41 at lvl 30.
The first even comparable smg from germans comes at level 35.
So not exactly sure how is soviets here forced to grind more ?
Ofc unless you mean that ppsh should be unlocked at level 1 because its definitely too hard to grind 30levels with soviet equipments.
Thanks for all those AP rounds for tanks and beretta 20mag.
I dare to speak behalf of every german player that we definitely wanted all that shit.
True, PPsh is countered by kiraly which unlocks 5 levels later.
Not exactly sure with what mentalgymnastics you find balance out of this ?
Germans has to grind with MPs as they have no option for 2 different type drum ppds like soviets has.
Quite big differency.
Ironicly I see quite alot of PPSh’s.
havent actually seen a single mg42 in moscow, probably due to being premium.
Not exactly sure what you failed to understand on part of used during battle of moscow ?
Ah, “F2 no no only prototipe during battle”
Fedorov ? Well it was made before the war and disregarded before battle of moscow but hey lets not stick to annoying little facts, ofc its fine.
Funny how those timelines are “fine” on soviet camp.
First prototype made after the war on europe ended.
Requires again some serious mental gymnastics to fit in battle of berlin ?
Ofc, you could say it was done during ww2 since the battle went on at pacific after war on europe ended.
But obviously, this doesnt apply to german equipments, right ?
Kp31 1931
Kiraly 1939
Mkb40 prototype 1940
Well your doing your best I can see
I dont recall them producing a single federov during war, dont recall them using a single fedorov after winter war.
As-44 ? Yeah never used on europe.
Pretty much sounds like a soviets got a counter for every “unique” weapon germans had such as assault rifle.
Regardless they didnt make a single one.
Yeah the soviet SA rifles were such a succes that they decided to continue with moist nuggets.
Tanks ? Well you can try with what ever mental gymnastics to prove the statistics that favor germans quite alot to wrong.
Well I can actually agree with machineguns, they indeed are better on germans due to higher rof.
Shame they have been broken for past few years so not much of use.
Isnt it a bit late for the fedorovs when they are pressumed to have been already destroyed?
Just to quote wikipedia for a bit and they are supposed to to have survived moscow till berlin now too. XD
During the 1939–1940 Soviet–Finnish war, an acute lack of individual automatic weapons led to the reintroduction of the stockpiled Fedorovs into service. They were sent to the Karelian front, mostly to military intelligence units.[15] It is presumed that most of the Fedorov Avtomats were expended or destroyed during that war.
Y’all acting like this whining didn’t existed long before the Fedorov appeared lol.
So weapon that existed before the campaign doesn’t make sense , equipment abundantly deployed like the PPSh and T-34 don’t make sense, Soviet prototypes like T-50 and AS-44 don’t make sense, not going to talk about equipment that was designed but saw limited action or was 2-3 months late to see action.
But, there is plenty Finnish, Hungarian and other axis members units represented in game so is fine we use their weapons.
Prototypes and other equipment with limited deployment are also cool, what kind of WW2 entertainment pice don’t show our tanks we produced ASTONISHING 1500 units of one and 500 of the other, it is ALMOST HALF of the very common Soviet ISU-152 and our rifles we produced WHOLE 7000 of them our beloved FG-42, we need that too.
Also, what is a 3-6 months gap between fall-winter 41 to spring-summer 42 so we can have MG-42, Pz.4f2 and Mkb.
I do not see proper citation for this info in wiki, but let’s believe its true and i overexaggerated for dramatic effect. It does not change the fact that MKB does not fit Moscow, they appeared in Wehrmacht in mid 1942 in laughable amounts.
Presumed is not a proof. Having no data is not a proof. Fedorov existed before 1941. Could have been used in Moscow or anywhere else in USSR, problem was in lack of ammunition, rather than amount of avtomats itself.
Also, i’ve said many times and will repeat once more - Fedorov should not be in unlocks. You should be able to get 1 for golden order, and same should apply to all kinds of prototypes or small series/outdated weaponry.
I never claimed it would fit moscow but pointed out that your statment was wrong.
In December 1940, a prototype rifle each from Haenel and Walther was tested by the HWA at Kummersdorf. Both designs were tested on the Eastern Front during 1942 and the Haenel design proved superior to Walther’s MKb 42(W). The German Army ordered a number of changes be made to the MKb 42(H) and the designation for the new rifle was MP 43. The majority of the MP 43’s features came from the MKb 42(H), with the hammer firing system and closed bolt coming from the MKb 42(W).[5]
Im certain that it has a sorce cited…
Hogg, Ian (2000). Military small arms of the 20th century. Weeks, John S. (7th ed.). Iola, WI: Krause Publications. p. 242. ISBN0873418247. OCLC45015519.