Decluttering of the German TT

The axis TT is known for being very cluttered and a nightmare to grind for very good reason,the large amount of filler content needed to progress the tree that offers very little over previous weapons.Here is a suggested,revised version of the TT to eliminate a lot of the clutter while retaining all the equipment,and a few small changes and suggestions to add to it as well.of course,the other factions should get some of their equipment changed accordingly as well.If you are wondering why I have almost nothing,this is because this is a secondary account on PC i’m doing this on,since I play on console mainly.I apologize in advance for the bad edit quality of the edited picures.If you disagree with any of the BRs being changed or of the new things being suggested,please feel free to explain why.Sorry for not being able to attach images for the new suggestions directly,but images don’t like to work when you put them in spoilers,so I’ll have the images under the main text.

images of new TT






BR 1

Rifles

Foldered:Gewehr 33/40, Kar 98 Kriegsmodell,Kar 98k,Vz 26

Foldered:Carcano M41, Carcano M38 7.35, Carcano M1891, Pre war K98k

Foldered:Sniper Kar 98k,Sniper Carcano M38 7.35,Sniper carcano M1891,Sniper pre war K98k

assaulter weapons

Foldered: MP 28, MP 34 (ö), MP 3008

Foldered: Beretta M38A, MAS 38, M30 Drilling

heavy equipment

Foldered: Pzb 38, Pzb 39

tanks

Foldered: M75/32 M41, StuG 3B

planes

Foldered: BF 109 E7/U2, BF 109 F2, Re 2002 Early

Foldered: BF 109 F4/Trop, FW 190 A1,Re 2001 serie 1

BR change reasoning

Prewar Kar98k normal + sniper- very very similar to the Kar 98k and Vz 29, I don’t see why half of BR2 BAs are there to begin with.

Carcano 1891 normal + Sniper
Same reasoning as the gun above,very similar to the M41 carcano but slower

MP 3008
100 RPM slower then the sten,shares the bad dispersion,and reloads slightly slower,but has the slight advantage of slightly less recoil

FW 190 A-1
No bombs,only MG FF/M and MG 17s,and terrible flight characteristics,why this is at BR2 baffles me.

Bf 109 F2
While the 15mm cannon has much more ammo then the FF/M cannons on the E7/U2,the weaker gun performance is quite noticable,this would give basically the same plane but trading damage for more ammo

BF 109 F4/Trop
Only one 20mm MG 151 and two 7.92mm guns with no suspended armament at BR3 while the hurricane Mk V/c is still BR2 despite being better in every aspect

New additions

MAS 38
A french SMG captured during the invasion of france,has a relatively high ROF for BR1 but has a lower damage then average due to the smaller bullet

MAS-38 - Wikipedia

StuG 3B
Almost identical to the Ausf. A we have as a premium,this one using panzer 3 G and H hulls compared to the panzer 3 Fs (very little difference between the 2),the main difference is this would get HE instead of HEAT.the low casmate design,easily penetrable armour with any cannon ,and lack of any MG can make this where it is,otherwise it has zero purpose in BR2 when it would be straight up worse than the 4E or F1 in every single aspect.

https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/nazi_germany/sturmgeschutz-iii.php

Re 2002 Early
Armed with two 12.7mm and two 7.7mm machine guns,with a bombload of two 100kg bombs (less explosives then the 4x 50kgs on the BF 109s),this could be a decent Italian fighter at low BR for Italy enjoyers.

Re.2002 Early | War Thunder Wiki


BR 2

Rifles

Foldered:Mas 36, Mannlicher M1895, VG.2, Armaguerra M39

Assaulter weapons

Foldered:FNAB 43,Beretta M1,Beretta M38/42

Foldered:Beretta 1918, OVP 1918, PPSH Obrez

Foldered:MP 40, MP38, MP 35/1

Heavy weapons

Foldered: Sturmpistole,GrB 39,Panzerfaust 30 klein

Foldered: MG13, Breda Mod 30, Chauchat, ZB 26

Tanks

Foldered: Panzer 3 J1, Puma

Foldered:Panzer 4E,Panzer 4 F1,Panzer 3N

Foldered:Marder 3, Marder 3H, StuG 3 F

Planes

Foldered:Fw 190 A-4,IAR 81C

Foldered: JU 87 B2, JU 87 D5

Foldered: JU 87 R2, BF 110 F2

BR change reasoning

MP 35/1
Essentially a faster firing MP40 (by 50 RPM),this would bring BR2 SMGs closer to the PPS 43,as this has a performance that can rival the gun.It has a slower RPM by 180,but has a slightly higher damage to compensate.

Beretta M38/42
Very similar to the Beretta M1,the only differences being very small alterations in recoil and reload to where you can’t notice it,but is at BR3.

Marder 3H
Yes,it has the better gun then the normal Marder 3,but the shell placement is incredibly bad,with only a little bit of HE for lots of APHE and APCR and smoke,so I think this,combined with the open top and thin armour,would be okay at 2

StuG 3F
Armour easily penned by BR1 tanks if you know what you’re doing and so so many drawbacks (casemate,no MG,slow,about same armour) compared to any long 75 panzer 4,this tank is so useless at BR3 the only reason why you would use it is for larping.At 2,this would get a breath of new life and wouldn’t be OP since it can be easily taken out with all of its downsides.

BF 110 F2
This is almost identical to the BF110 C7,but has a considerably longer turn time,almost 20 seconds compared to 17 is a pretty big deal,and compared to the JU 87 D5,it has worse 20mms with less ammo but two 250kg bombs instead of one and 4x 50kgs,while maintaining a similar turn speed.

IAR 81C
Almost a stuka’s bombload minus two 50kgs and pretty decent stats,it’d be better for BR2

New additions

Panzerfaust/faustpatrone 30 Klein
An earlier version of the panzerfaust 60 with worse pen and less range,could be close in performance to the M1 bazooka

Panzerfaust - Wikipedia


BR 3

Rifles

Foldered:Gewher 41,VG 1-5

assaulter weapons

Foldered:ZK 383,Beretta 40 rounds

Tanks

Foldered:Panzer 4 F2,Panzer 4G,

Foldered:P40,StuH 42

Foldered:Panzer 4 J,Panzer 4 H

Planes

Fiat G55 moved to 3

BR change reasoning

Beretta M38 (40 rounds)
has a lower rate of fire compared to BR3 SMGs by a good amount,but has the advantage of 8 more bullets

Panzer 4 H
Near identical to the Ausf J except for a faster turret rotation speed and sides kilts that have very little effect

Fiat G.55
It was originally supposed to be BR3,but someone complained about it and it got moved to 4,despite it being worse then the P51D in many aspects.the guns are on par,turn speed is slightly faster,but is slower and has much worse bombs.BR 3 is a good place for this to go.

New additions

P40
An Italian tank similar to 75mm shermans such as the M4a2 in many regards

P40 | War Thunder Wiki

StuH 42
A StuG 3 that replaces the 75mm anti tank gun for a 105mm.Due to being casemate and not having any MG (that is modeled anyways) that makes it significant worse then comparable tanks (Sherman 105,Chi-Ha short), it can get a few (5~7 maybe) HEAT rounds to compensate.The round in question wound be the Gr.39 rot HI/C HEAT shell,which can penetrate 115mm at 10 meters.

StuH 42 G | War Thunder Wiki


BR 4

Rifles

Foldered: Gewehr 43 and ZH 29

Assaulter weapons

Suomi KP/31 (50 rounds)

MKB 42 moved to 4

Planes

Foldered: BF 109 G6,FW 190 A-8,and Fiat G.55 serie 1

Tanks

Tiger E moved to 4

BR change reasoning

MKB 42
This gun has too slow of a ROF for BR5,where things like Federovs,PPSHs,Hydes,ect. Kill too fast in comparison to this gun.If it is moved to BR4,it will be more even,since it fights SMGs that have a similar killing potential, the high rates of fire and lower damage balancing out higher damage and lower rate of fire

Tiger E
The only gameplay difference between this and the H1,which is at BR4 and is fine,is just the roof MG and maybe the commander’s cupola,otherwise it is the exact same,just with zimmerit on it.

FW 190 A-8
horrible flight performance and lacking ground attack armament compared to the AP4c which is at BR4,it makes no sense why the FW is br5 and the AP4c is 4.At least with a lower BR,it can do more despite it’s horrid flight performance.

New additions

Suomi KP/31 50 rounds
The Suomi KP/31 could use a wide range of magazines,and one of them was a casket magazine which could hold 50 rounds,and could be a nice,fast alternative to the MKB

Suomi KP/-31 - Wikipedia

Fiat G.55 serie 1
an improved version of the G.55 we have in game (the Sottoserie 0),which can go a bit faster but still keep around the same performance otherwise,but the most notable change being that 2 of the 12.7mm machine guns are replaced with 20mm cannons,which would be a good boost to firepower for BR4.This version keeps the same dual 100kg bombs on the Sottoserie 0.

G.55 serie 1 | War Thunder Wiki


BR 5

Rifles

foldered:Fg 42 and 42 II

Assaulter weapons

foldered: MP 43/1 and StG44

planes

Foldered: FW 190 D12 and Do 335 B-2

Foldedred:Bf 109 K4 and Re 2005 Serie 0,Fighter

new additions

Do 335 B-2
A heavy super prop bomber with a pretty impressive payload of one 500kg bomb in an internal bomb bay and two wing mounted 250kg bombs.armed with 3 high penetration 30mm mk 101 cannons and and two MG 151s,if you get your guns on target,whatever your target is,it will definitely feel it.

Do 335 B-2 | War Thunder Wiki

Re 2005 Serie 0
Similar to the G.55 serie 1 I suggested earlier,but is ever so slightly faster,and has a centrally mounted 250kg bomb in addition to the two 100kg bombs.

Re.2005 serie 0 | War Thunder Wiki

Images

MAS 38

StuG 3B

(visually the same as the 3A,but without the winter camo)

Re 2002 early

Faustpatrone 30

P40

StuH 42

Suomi with 50 rounds

Fiat G.55 Serie 1

Do 335 B-1

Re 2005 serie 0

Thank you for reading all that,this post took a long time to make so I would really like for you to share your thoughts and opinions on this post,if you could.

10 Likes

Not the same topic, but I think BR should separate noobs from experienced players, not maps.

2 Likes

+1 For the nice addition
the Decluttering isn’t that needed

While I appreciate the fact the German TT will finally get the folders it deserves, I think a more holistic approach would be to compare the exp needed to max the tech trees of all nations side by side and make it so that every TT gets to the same BR (not necessarily the best gun, mind you) at the same exp threshold.

2 Likes

That is impossible if you just compare Japan to Germany, especially if you include folders, unless you’re fine with every nation other than Germany having xp requirements increase significantly for absolutely no good reason. There is no way Germany would have xp requirements reduced, don’t kid yourself, it would just be a nerf for all other factions.

No.

The other way around.

Germany gets exp requirements reduced- Other factions somehow nerfed because of that

What?

I’m saying that there is no chance the grind will be reduced, absolutely none, this is a F2P game with a premium account option that increases XP gain, there is no way the devs would compromise their monetization model for this, if your suggestion was adopted it would just result in every other nation having xp requirements increased to align with Germany.

Even if they folder equipment it will not accelerate the tech tree by much because you still need to unlock X amount of unlock before another Tier is unlocked. So if they make sure each faction has the same amount of unlock reqired they will advance at the same pace regardless of how many folder exist.

1 Like

You say that as though the economy rework that brought the tech tree instead of a campaign system didn’t happen.

Why? The devs don’t just increase the grind on a whim. It’s more negligence, if anything.

1 Like