Declutter the German Tech Tree

Suggestions
22

While I agree with the sentiment for not only the german but also the allied and maybe the soviet tree.

Foldering is preferable to removal.

But my main annoyance here is we shouldnt have a split British and Italy tree, just have the axis faction and the Western Allies faction, and then like how subfactions work in WT, give them their own line where all that equipment can fit into.

Splitting the playerbase pointlessly is dumb, especially when both sides used each others weapons. And if you just want to say “well just add the shared weapon into both trees” that goes against your point of reducing the grind.

And to nit pick the BR’s as presented.

Tier 1

  • Isnt the Stug 3A already in game as a premium, idk how you could get DF to move that into the TT (As much as I would wish for it like the Chi-Ha)

Tier 2

  • I think you were a bit too ruthless with the weapons at tier 2, there could be a second rifle and SMG there.

  • Why on earth would you make these points and then place the Pz3 N in front of the Pz4 E, the N being a flat upgrade over the E. I would instead recommend the Pz3 N be moved to BR3 with its late war HEAT shell and rebalanced shell count to balance it, while the Stug 3 F could replace it at BR2. This would give BR3 Germans a really strong HE flinger while BR2 Germans would get a powerful AT weapon for use against the likes of the KV-1, T-34 and Sherman.

  • Too Ruthless for already avoidable aircraft such as the Stuka D-3 which sits as an interesting option with 20mm guns.

Tier 3

  • Honestly happy enough with it as is, though my only change would be the swapping of the Stug 3 F and the Pz3 N.

  • Though as you implying you would make the MP40 a BR3?

Tier 4

  • A lower BR MG42 is very nice for larp, fuck you for thinking its fine to remove, folder it if you must.

  • See point above of just making it an axis faction instead of doing dumb shit like removing the M38A despite it being used by the Germans too. Side note about the M38, we so fucking need an event squad with the “Samurai” ammo carrier for the M38.

Tier 5

  • Again id be sad to see so much larp weaponry removed, especially the Jagdpanzers.

  • Otherwise apart from the MG 15 I’m fairly fine with it, even if the refusal to coexist with the Italians is dumb.

@Adamnpee I agree, removal of items which will in the long term only screw over newbies is just odd, all for foldering and reducing the grind though, admittedly atm I really dont think the grind is an issue, you can complete the entire grind for the game in the time it takes you get about 1 tree to 8.7 in WT.

1 Like
23

Yes.

The lack of grind in live service game that’s all based around it is kinda problem.

I really don’t think we should be reducing the time necessary for grinding all the stuff in the game any further.
It already has been reduced way too much in previous few months.
Instead, I think we should make more items optional. Either by foldering them only by some other way.
I already presented my idea here in this topic.

1 Like
24

No I disagree there, it was reduced perfectly, making it harder and gatekeeping newer players is dumb, same reason I hate the idea of removal of weapons.

But yes foldering of items and making them optional is 100% the way to go forward, clean up the trees while allowing new players to still get the items they want/need.

1 Like
25

You are wrong, because it wasn’t any kind of gatekeeping. :man_shrugging:

It’s not like they reduced grind by 50% or more

26

Sunk cost fallacy: our tendency to continue with an endeavor we’ve invested money, effort, or time into—even if the current costs outweigh the benefits.

But maybe I should’ve been more clear, just like in WT when they removed the Panther II, Maus and 10.5cm Tiger II, If you already have them you keep them.

Yeah and people who are wishing for things like the Battle of Hong Kong and Operation Compass will never have the chance to experience these battles authentically. I see your point however, and it is a good and valid point. On many ocasion Hungarian, Italian and Romanian forces where under German command, especially during Barbarosa.

Again, if you already got it you can keep it. I will edit the post to clarify this.

Things that were removed for being redundant are things that are near exact copies, like the Pre War K98k and Bf 110 C-7.

27

I agree that there are many useless weapons in the game, but that is because they are too weak for their BR, these weapons should get lower BR or a little buff but removing them won’t happen, Darkflow has never removed any from the game yet.

We been over the subfaction things, most players want mixed British-American and mixed Italian-German line ups, so instead of adding them as “new” factions which is a dead end, they should rework tech tree instead to accomodate Italians, future Hungarian, Romanian equipment ect.

8 Likes
28

THis is also a great Idea as long as I am also able to queue into matches with only Italian teams. Like I said to @ErikaKalkbrenner there are campaigns where only the Italians or British were present like Operation Compass and The Battle on Hong Kong.

29

I was hearing you out until here, why must you be disrespectful?

1 Like
30

not quite.

one may view it that way,

i, on the other hand, view it as shrinking content just for the sake of redundancy.

but does it really benefit the whole playerbase?

foldering for new players should be a must.

but at the cost of preventing them from using other weapons?

( can’t believe this, but ) even reddit users are constantly asking what’s X or how can Y be obtained.
and that’s just limited to event and some premium squads.

what you want to do, ( ideally ) should be the opposite.
not to create confusion and frustration for people that didn’t got specific items.

( like SG did initially at the merge for the Mp, mannlicher, panzer IV G, breda 30 & t34 stz )

i’m sorry, but authencity in enlisted died when the merge released. ( and to be fair, even in the alpha there were many wide cracks about the actual validicity of it’s authentic historical settings )

it serves no one clinging on an unhealthy dose of copium beliving in false claims ( albe it made by the advertisment team that still promotes the same lies to this day )

and i’m not sure how would be any different from italians in berlin, or moroccan / partisans in tunisia.

which, the only way, to get precisely that ,would be through mod.

but i’m sorry to sound rude, it kinda has nothing to do with those who do want mixed units to get and use different things.

it’s enlisted after all. some sort of sandbox. and it should be that way.

except, they aren’t inherently copies.

they have different sight, slighlty different stats and even armament in some occasions.

i don’t see why you would think limiting options for new players outright removing equipment is a good idea.

part of the enlisted experience ( but… to be fair, that was only for me. so it may not apply to everyone, nor it should ) is to try the equipment, see what you like, and use it.

even if it’s not effective.

you are also precluding people from trying different weapons.
even if has marginal differences gatekeeping equipment.

the choice of them not using them should be based on their own preferences. not outright regulated and made inaccessible to them.

it sounds to me you are using the HA card.
do we really want to go down that rabbit hole?

because i’m not trying to be rude, but it’s delusion at this point.
and somewhat failing at grasping reality around you.

you can’t just make it up.

if you really want to make german HA, you’re not going to have a great time.
especially when other factions uses non historical equipment too.

but good luck having fun with pumas or panzer III N with last ditch weapons towards the lates stages of the war. i personally do it because it’s my own challenge, but i can guarantee you 70% of the playerbase would not like it.

hell, even current german mains somehow struggles with the best equipment at br v ( according to them because something something, not having an mg42 250 rounds or an effing mouse ).

on the other hand, like it is now, vs weapons are low br because those things aren’t really performing passed br III. which you’ll see them in tunisia, moscow, normandy and even the bulge.
which it’s not authentic either.

so again, i’m afraid we’ll have to agree to disagree.

but i can’t see this going through.

i’ll give you this much.

the base equipment looks alright.
the foldering are somewhat on points.

i just wouldn’t remove the equipment for the sake of it. again, just folder it.

it will be up to players to decide whether they want to use certain item or not.

3 Likes
31

They are copies for all practical pupouses. If you want to collect all ww2 vehicles you can play War Thunder.

You’re ultimately right. I am working for a proposal for a scenarios mode and a Realistic mode that would alliviate some of the Historical innacuracies, but by-in-large, yes, I have given up on true HA. the game is only a couple of steps away from reaching CoD Vanguard levels of bullshitery.

The best we can hope for is to have a game mode where all prototype stuff is not included and teams look like they belong(No weird out of place units).

1 Like
32

Because that was such a bad take I had to, you know damn well it was a dumb idea as well, like should we remove all Thompsons from the game except the 50 round drug? No ofc not, thats just stupid.

If you want to ignore it all because your feeling were hurt go ahead, who am I to stop you.

33

I actually dislike removing content in general … putting in folders is fine IMO as you don’t need to complete all the folder contents to move on. While I understand its different variants and such, it is a cool aspect imo that enlisted has all these minor variants you don’t see.

While I agree Italy should get its own tree, DF has repeatedly stated at this point there is no plans to make minor sub trees. as such, removing them seems counter intuitive … I think it would be better however to rename it from Germany to simply Axis Europe.

4 Likes
34

Pretty much only M1A1 and the 50 rounder are actually cool, the rest are filler

35

Honestly I feel you for the HA points, I first played for that reason, what I would like is a “sim” gamemode like in WT where there are predefined vehicles and weapons that can be allowed for the line. For example for a Battle of Hong Kong “sim”, There would be no tanks, and only british weapons.

36

Im not ignoring it, you made great points and I am editing the Tree to put some of your suggestions in(including the MG 42 with drum, youre right it was dumb to remove it). Just sad you felt like you needed to insult me to make them.

1 Like
37

yeah poor example tbf, M1, M1A1 and 50 drum and the main standouts, the rest need to be foldered, but again I think they should only be foldered since there is at least some graphical differences which players might like.

1 Like
38

Sorry if it was too harsh, thats just my way of speaking in general. Ive lost track of the amount of times ive been warned on the discord for swearing, I genuinely cant help it, thats how the people around me and myself for that matter speak in the day to day life with me.

39

Youre right, Ive been reading everyones comments and I knew this would be controversial but damn, I guess i shouldve expected this from the Axis enthusiast player base, we are very pasionate about this topic.

One of the games biggest draws is the amount of weapons in the game after all, and I think you all have convinced me that such a big cut of content is not the best solution.

Foldering is the more appropirate answer most of the time.

I still stand by my decisions on near exact copies however. I will not add the Pre War K98k Mp43/1 or BF 110 C-7 , they literally add nothing asthetically or gameplay wise.

BF 110s
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Pre War K98k
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MP 43/1 (it was literally a trick to make Hitler think it was an SMG, other wise exactly the same as the STG 44 IRL)
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40

same

41

yeah those 3 examples given are completely redundant both from a gameplay and mechanical view, I mean like the Pre War or kriegsmodel are both really egregious examples of it. I mean if we were goign to have the kriegsmodel kar 98, does everyone else get wartime downgrades due to manufacturing defects/shortages? because thats a hell of a rabbit hole to go down.