Now I want to preface this that I’m not entirely 100% on board with this idea. Maybe 65-75% but I just think it’s an interesting point for discussion
Carbines are in a very complicated spot in this game. Carbines generally were just shortened rifles but over time new types of weapons were added to the family. Semi automatic carbines, pistol carbines, automatic carbines. Weapons like the Mosin 1938 carbine or M1 Carbine are treated as universal riflemen weapons or are available for many classes like Riflemen, Engineer, AT, etc; and that is fine. The highly contested debates and controversy are about AUTOMATIC carbines. I’m sure we all know the infamous M2 carbine
Many have called for the M2 carbine to be removed as a universal weapon, claiming it’s practically between an SMG and Assault rifle. Now I will say I don’t really mind automatic carbines, just like their other family members, being universal weapons as they are now, carbine is a carbine. But I was just thinking about this idea
Make automatic carbines available to Assaulters. This would mean weapons like the M2 carbine would go to the Assaulter class. There are a few other automatic carbines in game plus ones yet to be added
One of the best analogs for this idea is Snipers. Snipers have access to any weapon that has a scope; bolt action rifles, semi auto rifles, automatic rifles, and even assault rifles. We don’t have Assaulters with their scoped assault rifles, or Riflemen with their scoped bolt actions. The Sniper gets their scoped variants. Thus automatic carbines could go to Assaulters, while their non cousins would remain universal weapons like any other rifle. Oh and I’m just saying but the M3 carbine when it’s added should most likely go to Snipers
So for example, weapons like the M2 carbine, M712 Schnellfeuer, and M1944 Hyde Carbine would go to Assaulters, while the M1 Carbine, P08 Carbine, and SW 1940 light rifle would be universal riflemen weapons
Ah yes, let’s give the SMG soldiers SBR’s. That makes sense. Totally. About as much sense as an SBR being more deadly than a full barreled rifle. Yes, I just attacked this idea and the NFA in one comment
And I’m assuming you’re also talking about the FG42? Which, to be brutally honest, I wouldn’t mind being taken away from the Krauts. What I and my friend call that gun I don’t know if I can say in this forum, don’t know how anal mods are about being politically correct and whatnot compared to other places like Reddit, but let’s just say we add a vowel in the middle of FG 42. That’s how much we hate fighting against that dang thing
However, I will not actively cry out “oh such and such needs to be removed because my feelings and my inability to counter them with anything” because I feel like that’s a really lazy way to admit you’re uncreative in methods of attack and can’t utilize any of the many ways to kill a man you are given in this game. Lot of ways to kill a man if you’re willing to use them
I personally think automatic rifles are fine being universal riflemen weapons….for now. I think the hot button of this issue is that each country handled their auto rifles differently
America pressed the BAR into the MG role, while the FG42 was primarily just a semi auto rifle that could go automatic for specific situations. Basically the BAR and FG are in the same family, but the BAR is more closer to the MG branch while the FG is closer to the rifles
I’ve said that they could make the original BAR as well as adding a field modified BARA2 into the automatic rifle class.
Totally fine and I agree, just as long as the FG42, AVS, and AVT are treated in the same regard. The new gold orders are fine in my opinion, it’s not like you can outfit whole squads with them.
The reason I lean towards disagreeing is because most Auto rifles are closer to rifles than they are to SMGs and assault rifles. While automatic carbines are closer to SMGs than rifles
I will say something like the Gewehr 43 Kurz is closer to an assault rifle than regular rifles as it’s placed now. And there may have been an FG chambered in the Stg round using its magazine. Both would basically be Assaulter weapons
Mmm the M1918 as a Rifleman weapon? Aw that’d be nice. Doubt it’d happen though. I mean people don’t even want us having a .30 Carbine automatic. Can you imagine us having a 30-06 automatic? Lot of dead Krauts and Japs, that’s for certain. Lol
I just find what makes everything convoluted is the varying intended roles of all these weapons.
For example, an LMG is designed for sustained fire while an Automatic rifle is basically a shock weapon. Obviously you can go around hipfiring your LMG, but ideally the guy should be bipoded laying down fire to maximize his effectiveness.
I will say the balance of most automatic rifles is they have high damage but equally high recoil when in automatic mode
Yeah automatic rifles sure are a pain with recoil. Big heavy gun, full power cartridge recoil, small mag, all good stuff that makes it less desirable. Heck the dang M2 kicks like a mule though without perks
well, i mean avt
It was put into use when DP was lacking
And this is in response to the OP’s belief that the M2 needs to be removed from the Rifleman
But I do think that the StG is more appropriate as an infantry weapon than the FG.
I think assault rifles should be given to riflemen rather than assault troops. At least in German WW2 doctrine, they should be the next generation standard infantry weapon.
In the US WWI doctrine, an automatic rifle (bar) is fired by several shooters one shot one step while advancing to suppress the enemy.
I dont know if they gave it a different niche in WWII or not.
In WWII the BAR was pressed into the LMG roll, although at that point the original M1918 had been upgraded to the A1 and A2. I’d imagine only the Marines still retained a few M1918’s. Which is to be expected since they get stuff last and that’s the only ones who get that variant in the game anyways. How effective it was in that role is debatable. The limited mag size and the lack of “crew served” ability (top loaded mag for second man reloading and all that good stuff) definitely makes the “lmg” definition a bit iffy. Although in American doctrine, the BAR was still technically a crew weapon. One man carried the gun and a bit of ammo. A second man carried the bipod and extra ammo. As well as all the rest of the soldiers carried extra ammo. Not that big of a deal though as all of our rifles and lmg’s used 30-06 so of course everyone other than maybe the CO would have some on hand
It would mess with the asymmetric balance that we currently have that works quite well for US Allies vs Axis.
Axis have better tanks - US have better planes
Axis have FG 42 which means mid range they are better - US have better close range with the M2 available to most units and a decent chance in a mid range fight
Axis have better Submachineguns like STG or MP43 - US have better LMGs like the browning 30 cal and Johnson LMG - So I run LMGs over assaulters for US
In their current state it’s relatively balanced with the exception of Tiger 2 (H) until US get Super Pershing
Removing the M2s as available to all would mean US would lose a cqb fight and most likely a mid range fight vs FGs so the alternatives is M1 carbine which is a garbage weapon IMO with very weak rounds and high TTK or use Garands with grenade launchers and if you remove the grenada launcher part the Garand is much worse than the FG. Less rounds, more recoil even though it hits hard and is a decent weapon.
In addition to the fact assaulters have a plethora of weapons to choose from in SMGs from 2 factions and can run a shotgun secondary they don’t need the M2. If you want to use M2 in an assaulter type role just kit out a rifleman squad with M2s.
I play all sides all campaigns so I’m not biased but limiting my options of kitting out my troops is never appreciated. Plus as I stated it would mess with the balancing of the factions.
As an alternative, if you were advocating for US troopers and other classes besides assaulters and snipers access to the BAR or one of those variants that would kinda make more sense and I would support that.
As this would mean you could have a choice of playstyle between m2 for close-range or BAR for mid to long. It’s 20 rounds with selective fire modes that is a lot closer to FG42s in terms of power and damage capability.
Dang I wasn’t even thinking about how hard that would screw us with weapon selection afterward. Yeah, the M2 is our only automatic gun to put in the hands of everyone