You seem to have missed the point of my post and of this topic.
The Original Poster, @ anonymebagueteCZ seems to have posted this topic because he has trouble dealing with enemy tanks in the “grey zone”. Moreover he appears to be a new player, so any help veteran players can offer him is useful for him. That help might not be useful for you, you however are not the one that has posted this topic.
To help @ anonymebagueteCZ combat enemy tanks in the “grey zone” my post gives him tips how to deal with enemy vehicles in the “grey zone”.
From your reply you come across as a very negative and defeatist person and your reply more or less implies that you seem to think that enemy tanks in the “grey zone” cannot be dealt with. That is not true. Enemy tanks in the “grey zone” can be dealt with in a multitude of ways in Enlisted, your negative and defeatist attitude and reply does not help @ anonymebagueteCZ at all and gives the impression that all is hopeless when confronting an enemy tank in the “grey zone”.
Nothing could be further from the truth in this matter however.
For the benefit of @ anonymebagueteCZ I will respond to your comments.
You cannot call artillery in in the “grey zone” and neither do you have to or should you for it to block the line of sight of an enemy vehicle in the “grey zone”.
The key thing here is to block the line of sight of the enemy vehicle in the “grey zone”. For that it is best to NOT actually call in a smoke artillery fire mission ON the exact position of the enemy vehicle. What you need to do is lay the smoke artillery screen BETWEEN the enemy vehicle and the objective.
That also means to NOT lay the smoke screen on the objective itself. If you lay the smoke screen on the objective the enemy vehicle will still be able to have a useful line of sight left, right and in front of the objective. If you lay it BETWEEN the enemy vehicle in the “grey zone” and the objective you will deprive him of any useful line of sight and all he can do is fire blindly into the smoke screen. This greatly limits the effectiveness of the enemy vehicle in the “grey zone”.
If you do it that way then it does not even matter if the enemy vehicle slightly changes position in the “grey zone” because the artillery smoke screen will still blocks his line of sight.
The same holds true for a mortar smoke screen. It is best to NOT actually lay the smoke screen ON the objective or on the enemy vehicle in the “grey zone” but instead lay it between the enemy “grey zone” and the objective. Not only to block the line of sight of an enemy vehicle in the “grey zone” but because of another benefit this has.
I have noticed in-game that for some reason many players on the enemy team often seem to think that a smoke screen between their “grey zone” and the objective is helpful to them and I have noticed on many maps that the enemy team will move through a smokescreen that I laid between their entry points in their “grey zone” and the objective. Funnily enough mortar smoke shells also seem to be able to kill enemy soldiers. Many enemy players seem to think that such a smoke screen is “friendly” to them and will help them reach the objective. As a result of which enemy infantry more often than not runs to the objective through the smoke screen that I laid with a mortar. This allows for a little trap that often enemy players will fall into. First you use your mortar to lay a smoke screen between their “grey zone” and the objective, this has the dual benefit that it can also block the line of sight of any enemy vehicle in the “grey zone”. Then once all smoke shells have been fired from your mortar you switch to High Explosive (HE) shells. More often than not the enemy players are by then running through your mortar smoke screen and then when your HE mortars shells start to drop in your smoke screen you can rack up quite a number of kills. It does not always work, but it works more often than not.
The key here is to NOT drop the smoke on the objective and/or an enemy vehicle but to use it as described above.
Another moment when mortars usually are quite deadly is immediately after an objective has been captured. The defending team then usually has been wiped out and is concentrated on the next objective. When you fire HE mortars shells on the next objective immediately after the capture of an objective than more often than not you can get at least 14+ kills on the defending team. Mortars are quite useful if you know/learn how to use them.
I assume “goof” means good.
Again: if you lay a smoke screen BETWEEN the enemy vehicle in the “grey zone” and the objective it does not matter if the enemy vehicle in the “grey zone” changes his position slightly. His line of sight will then still be blocked. IF he chooses to leave the “grey zone” then the problem that the Original Poster of this topic described will have been solved: the enemy vehicle will then no longer be in the “grey zone”.
This was your remark about infantry smoke hand grenades. For the infantry smoke hand grenades the same applies as for the artillery smoke screen and the mortar smoke screen. That is: do NOT lay smoke ON an enemy unit or ON the objective. Instead lay it BETWEEN the objective and the main line of advance of the enemy and/or the enemy vehicle in the “grey zone”.
Again: if you lay the smoke screen BETWEEN the objective and the enemy vehicle in the “grey zone”, then the enemy vehicle in the “grey zone” will only be able to blind fire, he might get lucky by doing so but his effectiveness will still be reduced.
With that remark you referred to the “tools” friendly aircraft, tanks and anti-tank guns.
Human players as a rule of thumb in Enlisted have these “tools” available in EVERY match, at least two of the three. So this solution is always applicable, or “works” as you call it, if you know how to use these “tools” effectively.
If the enemy vehicle is marked by you, and your side deploys tanks/aircraft/anti-tank guns and deploys and uses them effectively they can then all combat an enemy vehicle in the “grey zone”.
In practically EVERY match your side will have access to aircraft and tanks. It is very rare that one side in a match only consists of human players that DO NOT YET have access to and/or not deploy/use aircraft/tanks. Human players that know how to use tanks/aircraft effectively can use them to combat an enemy vehicle in the “grey zone” if you mark it for them. And countering enemy vehicles in the “grey zone” is what this topic is about.
The only “tool” which is not always available in matches are anti-tank guns since these have to be unlocked in an engineer squad. But again: by now it is rare to play a match where at least one human player has not unlocked anti-tank guns in an engineer squad.
From what I have seen in matches most human players simply either do not deploy anti-tank guns, deploy them badly or have not (yet) learned how to use them effectively. Human players that know how to use anti-tank guns effectively have success with them.
A total of six “tools” were mentioned by me in my post. If your tank has smoke shells, you can use them as described to counter an enemy vehicle in the “grey zone”. If not then the other mentioned “tools” are available instead to effectively combat an enemy vehicle in the “grey zone”.
If your Sherman tank armed with a 75 mm gun tries to combat a Tiger from the front in his “grey zone”, then your Sherman will have little chance to destroy that Tiger from the front. Instead you can indirectly counter that enemy Tiger in his “grey zone” with tank gun smoke shells by taking a position on his flank in a spot which is not within the line of sight of the enemy Tiger, but which allows you to fire tank gun smoke shells to block the line of sight of the Tiger to the objective. You can then still use your Sherman against other targets of opportunity in between firing the tank gun smoke shells.
By firing tank gun smoke shells between the enemy Tiger in the “grey zone” and the objective you deprive that Tiger of a line of sight, and if you deploy your Sherman outside his line of sight the Tiger can then also not fire at your Sherman.
Again: you do not have to FRONTALLY FACE an enemy tank in the “grey zone” to blind it with smoke. What you can do is mark the spot on the map where the tank is at, and then position your tank on the FLANK of the line of sight of the Tiger. Make sure to position your tank so that it is NOT within line of sight of the Tiger. You only need to be able to fire tank gun smoke shells at a spot on the map where your smoke shells will block the line of sight of the Tiger to the objective.
You seem to have missed the point. The training room is there, among other things, to learn how to use the tools provided.
The Original Poster, @ anonymebagueteCZ wrote the following:
Yes it can be difficult but learning how to use aircraft to destroy enemy tanks is what the training room is for. The training room is a tool provided to learn how to use aircraft ordnance effectively against enemy vehicles.
When a player selects his aircraft in the training room he will enter the map with his aircraft lined up perfectly with enemy target vehicles. A player can then use his aircraft in the training room to attack the nearest enemy vehicle by flying towards it in a straight line and using the aircraft ordnance (bombs/rockets etc.) against the nearest enemy vehicle.
In that way a player can learn:
- When to release the ordnance.
- Where to aim the ordnance.
- How to properly release the ordnance to damage/destroy an enemy vehicle.
After attacking the FIRST enemy vehicle the player can then crash his aircraft, by flying it into the ground and then immediately pick the same aircraft to again get it back in the training room lined up perfectly with the enemy vehicle. In that way a player can constantly keep attacking the enemy vehicles again and again without lining up an approach and without wasting time flying around. So a player can in this manner focus on constantly attacking with the aircraft in the training room until he has learned how to master the art of using aircraft ordnance effectively to damage/destroy enemy vehicles.
As to enemy players constantly evading aircraft ordnance: I have yet to see any enemy vehicle in Enlisted that is able to constantly outrun aircraft ordnance when dropped by a skilled friendly pilot.
To make matters worse for vehicles in Enlisted, even if you position your tank in a narrow street between large multi-storied buildings covering your flanks and rear ANY near miss by aircraft ordnance on the opposite side of any of the buildings will still damage/destroy the tank. This of course is silly and not authentic, but that is how it is in Enlisted. This is especially the case when facing an enemy P-47 Thunderbolt fighter-bomber in Enlisted. Which is one of the reasons I have stopped using tanks on the German side in Normandy in PC Enlisted.
Your anecdotal “evidence” is no evidence at all.
In Normandy Enlisted on the PC, which is the example that I gave, more often than not German vehicles will be massacred by allied fighter-bombers. That is my experience in practically every match on Normandy Enlisted on the PC.
My advice to the Original Poster, @ anonymebagueteCZ was and is therefore to simply play on the German side in Normandy Enlisted on the PC and stay in the “grey zone” and see what happens next. By doing that he can experience first hand how skilled players will counter a German vehicle in the “grey zone”.
I recently had a match on the XBOX Enlisted on an alternate account in Berlin where I had over 350 kills. That is anecdotal “evidence” which is no evidence at all, it is a fluke. On Berlin XBOX Enlisted I recently had two matches in which I could do what I want without being countered. Matches like that do not count, they are the exception not the rule.
In one of those matches on XBOX Berlin I used a heavy machine gun to absolutely massacre the enemy without the enemy even trying to counter my heavy machine gun. In another one of those matches on XBOX Berlin I used a Panther G to absolutely massacre the enemy again without the enemy even trying to counter my Panther. In both of those matches the enemy did not deploy aircraft, tanks, anti-tank guns, Panzerfaust, artillery, mortars, smoke, sniper rifles etc. Those kind of matches are the exception, not the rule.
My experience on PC Enlisted is that, especially on Normandy maps and especially on the German side, tanks normally do not last long. Especially in Normandy in PC Enlisted the allied aircraft can easily destroy any German tank anywhere on the map, they do not even have to hit it, any near miss by bombs/rockets will destroy it.
Most effective is the P-47 fighter-bomber, the P-38 fighter-bomber is also quite effective however in the hands of a skilled pilot. Some of the most one-sided matches in Enlisted are where there are two skilled allied P-47 pilots which are not countered by the German side. The Il-2 is also very effective in this role in Enlisted, especially if unopposed.
lol.
Actually the match I was referring to was quite fun and it took place quite a while back. It was on the beach map in Normandy. I had positioned my Tiger on the hill on the right, as seen from the German entry position, between the bunker and brick shed. From that area the Tiger has a clear line of sight over the whole beach and with its 88 mm gun and its machine guns it can massacre the enemy on the beach. After destroying some tanks, mostly Stuarts, and a good amount of infantry, an enemy Sherman entered the map and immediately fired smoke shells between my Tiger and the beach, blocking my line of sight.
Another allied player kept hitting my Tiger with rifle fire to mark it and then another Sherman appeared, also hidden behind smoke. The two Shermans kept firing at my marked Tiger through the smoke and the rifle fire kept marking my Tiger. Backing up and changing position was not helpful either because the smoke shells kept coming no matter what position I took. The Shermans made sure to never run out of smoke shells by staying near their ammo resupply point.
The fun level increased when an enemy P-38 fighter-bomber with rockets appeared which joined in with rocket attacks on my Tiger. Luckily for me the P-38 pilot was not very skilled. Later on an enemy anti-tank gun was deployed on the roof of a bunker on the left, but I could not spot this due to the smoke blocking my line of sight. It could fire at me though through the smoke because of the rifle rifle marking my Tiger.
In the end I did take out one of the Shermans through the smoke because it was marked by friendly troops and I then fired at it through the smoke and destroyed it. I managed to evade getting destroyed by the P-38 by driving forward and back, but the Tiger was damaged by the P-38. The P-38 pilot was not very skilled however and he later crashed his aircraft after an attack run. The other Sherman and the anti-tank gun were destroyed by someone else later on in the match and then the smoke problem was over, but by then most of the objectives had been captured by the allies.
It was a fun match. I have never since experienced two enemy tanks using tank gun smoke shells like that in a match, making it a memorable experience.
