Burma Campaign Proposal

[Kolto]

With talk of future campaigns, there’s no shortage of ideas being thrown out there. One of the most popular ones involves the Pacific Islands Campaign but I’d like to make a case for Burma instead. The campaign lasted the whole length of the war and featured lesser known combatants of the war while bringing quite a few new weapons. This is a very flawed and incomplete list that I have thrown together for a potential campaign. If you’re interested, help me fill it out, might be a good reference for devs:
MAPS:
Mandalay and Meiktila - Destroyed cities filled with many temples with an assault toward Fort Dufferin.

Imphal and Kohima - Hill and jungle fighting.


Burma Oil Fields - Oil derricks and steep hills make for fighting with a lot of verticality.


Shan States - A village to village blitz.

UNITED AXIS FORCES IN BURMA (Thai, Burmese, Japanese, Indian National Army)

Standard Rifle: Type 38 Carbine (The 38 was used by literally everyone)
Rifleman 1 - Type 38 Rifle (Burmese Independence Army 6th Unit)
Rifleman 2 - Type 99 Short Rifle [Later unlock Type 99 short w/Grenade Launcher](Japanese Regiment)
Rifleman 3 - Type 99 Long Rifle w/Grenade Launcher[40mm Type 2 Anti-Tank Grenade Round] (Japanese Regiment)
Engineer 1 - Type 46/66 Siamese Mauser [Or Type 66 if you want another Arisaka for some reason] (Thai Regiment)
Engineer 2 - Type 99 Long Rifle (Japanese Regiment)
Engineer 3 - Lee Enfield Mk.4 (Indian National Army Regiment)
Sniper 1 - Type 97 Sniper Rifle (Japanese Regiment)
Sniper 2 - Type 99 Sniper Rifle (Japanese Regiment)
Assaulter 1 - MP18 SMG [Later unlock Murata Type 18 Shotgun] (Japanese Regiment)
Assaulter 2 - Type 100 [Later unlock Type 100/44] (Japanese Regiment)
Assaulter 3 - M1 Thompson [Later Unlock Thompson 1928] (Indian National Army Regiment)
Machinegunner 1 - Type 11 LMG [Later Unlock Type 96 LMG] (Burmese Independence Army 1st Unit)
Machinegunner 2 - Type 99 LMG [Later unlock Type 92 ‘Lewis’ LMG not to be confused with actual Lewis guns used by Japanese Navy in China] (Japanese Regiment) Maybe unlock scopes for the Japanese LMGs?

Radioman 1 - ‘Grandpa’ Nambu with Stock (Thai Regiment) [Thousands purchased by Thai Army, also issued to Japanese and Burmese troops]

Radioman 2 - SMLE MK.3 (Indian National Army Regiment)
Mortarman 1 - Type 98 Mortar (Burmese Independence Army 2nd Unit)

Bomber 1 - Type 89 Grenade Discharger [Later unlock Type 97 Anti-tank Launcher] (Japanese Regiment)
Bomber 2 - Type 4 70mm Rocket Launcher [Later unlock Lunge Mine?] (Japanese Regiment)
Flamethrower 1 - Type 93 (Japanese Regiment)
Flamethrower 2 - Type 100 (Japanese Regiment)
Tanker 1 - Type 95 Ha-Go [Later unlock Type 89 I-Go] (Japanese Regiment)
Tanker 2 - Type 97 Chi-Ha [Later unlock Type 97 ShinHoTo Chi-Ha] (Japanese Regiment)
Tanker 3 - Type 1 Ho-Ni (Japanese Regiment)
Fighter 1 - (Curtis Hawk III? Might be pushing it) Ki-27 Otsu [Later Unlock Curtis Hawk 75N] (Royal Thai Airforce)
Possible Premium Squads:
Rani of Jhansi Regiment (Female Indian National Army Squad)


Japanese ‘Last Ditch’ Attack Squad (Type 99 ‘Rope Hole’ Arisaka with flags, katanas on officers(melee specialist troopers[armed with only swords and pistols-see future Shanghai Campaign proposal]))

Gold Weapons
Type Hei Machinegun
Melee Weapons
Shingunto (Katana)

Nata (Japanese style machete/hatchet)

Pistols
Type 14 Pistol
Type 94 Pistol
Hamada Pistol
Twitch Drop Pistol
Thai Type 80 Machinepistol

UNITED ALLIED FORCES IN BURMA (British Colonials[Punjabi, Sikh, Gurkha, West/East Africans, etc.], Chinese, British, Americans, Kachin/Karen Rebels)

Standard Rifle: P-14 Rifle (used by chinese, brits, indians, and rebels)

Rifleman 1 - 1917 ‘Eddystone’ Enfield Rifle (Chinese Regiment) (used by the major armies in theater, slightly shorter than 1917 Enfield but I guess you could be lazy and reuse the regular one)

Rifleman 2 - SMLE MK.3 [Later unlock SMLE w/Grenade Launcher] (7th Indian Infantry Division)
Rifleman 3 - Johnson Rifle (Burmese Rebel Squad also used in limited numbers by Chinese)

Radioman 1 - Inglis Hi-Power with Stock (Chinese Regiment) [Thousands flown over “The Hump” and delivered to Chinese forces in Burma]

Radioman 2 - M1 Carbine (British Indian Regiment)
Machinegunner 1 - Vickers Berthier [Later Unlock Bren] (Sikh Regiment)
Machinegunner 2 - Johnson LMG [Later unlock Lewis gun] (Burmese Rebel Squad)
Engineer 1 - Lee Metford (Indian Regiment)
Engineer 2 - Lee Enfield Mk.4 (34th East African Field Company – 11th East African Division)
Engineer 3 - Lee Enfield Jungle Carbine (British Regiment)
Flamethrower 1 - Flamethrower, Portable No.2 (British Regiment)
Tanker 1 - M2A4 (Chinese Regiment) [Later unlock Renault ZB? unique to Burma and varied in armament but there were only 16]
Tanker 2 - M3A3 Stuart Tank [Later unlock Grant Tank] (2nd Royal Tank Regiment or British 7th Hussars)
Tanker 3 - M4A4 Sherman Tank (1st Tank Battalion of 1st PTG Chinese Regiment)
Sniper 1 - Springfield 1903A4 (Merril’s Marauders - American)
Sniper 2 - Lee Enfield Sniper (British Indian Regiment)

Bomber 1 - BOYS AT Rifle [Later Unlock PIAT] (maybe 6th West African Infantry Brigade - 81st West African Divison)

Bomber 2 - Bazooka [Later Unlock Recoilless Rifle] (American/Rebel Regiment)

Assaulter 1 - Sten MK.3 [Later unlock Winchester 1912 Shotgun (though I’d prefer an 1897)] (Gurkha Regiment)

Assaulter 2 - UDM-42 [Later Unlock M1 Thompson] (Chinese Regiment) (great numbers of UDMs flown over “The Hump”)

Assaulter 3 - Sten MK.5 [Later unlock Thompson 1928] (British Regiment)
Fighter 1 - Brewster F2A Buffalo [Later Unlock P40N Warhawk] (80th Fighter Group - Burma Banshees [though Brits were using Buffalos far more, the P40 was the preferred plane of Burma forces even over the Mustang - save British planes for fighter 2?])
Possible Premium Squads:
44th Composite Parachute Battalion - De Lisle commando (folding stock) carbines (Gurkha Paratroopers (just look at those hats) with Kukris)

Gold Weapons
Delisle Carbine with wooden stock (Thousands of Delisles of both models were delivered and used in Burma)
Bren Gun with 100 Round Drum (Japanese don’t really have equivalent unless devs stick big drum on Type 92 LMG so this is probably where it belongs)

Gold Vehicles
Chinese M4A4 Sherman with Cat drawing

Melee Weapons
Machete
Dah (Burmese short sword)

Pistols
Enfield Revolver
Webley Revolver
Browning Hi-Power
1911
Twitch Drop Pistol
Welrod
NOTES:
Murata Type 18 Shotgun (Single shot) - The Imperial Japanese Military was in possession of nearly 50,000 shotguns (including single, double (both with bayonet adapters), and even a few browning auto 5s) many of which were deployed during the Battle of Saipan and in the Phillipines. It’s not so far fetched that there would have been some issued in Burma. Good luck finding a proper standard model of a Japanese double barrel from that era. The only thing I can find is bayonet adapters (everything in Japan gets a bayonet).

Thailand - The Thai fought the Chinese in the Shan States of Burma and had sporadic skirmishes on the border the rest of the war. I found a reference to an offensive that was beaten back by the Chinese but couldn’t find more on it. There aren’t a whole lot of records (at least those that can be reasonably found with translated searches) from that time since the Thai weren’t in any rush to brag about fighting for the Axis after the war. The Thai are probably overrepresented in this proposal but it’d be doing them a disservice not to represent them in the campaign.

Burmese - The Burmese had a very understated role in the campaign. Reorganized 3 times, the Burmese fought alongside and under the command of the Japanese (though they were most prominent early war). There aren’t that many records regarding Burmese actions (again, nobody was in any rush to brag about fighting for the Axis after the war) and in some cases, such as the Battle of Shwedaung, the Japanese wrote them out of the official military after action reports completely.

Kachin/Karen (Burmese Rebels) - When they weren’t fighting for the various Allied Armies, they fought in their own irregular units or the Chindits. Well equipped and aided by Americans they were some of the best troops in the theater.

Mixed Units - Units on both sides were surprisingly mixed between armies, especially in the Chindits and the British. The Thai are probably the only real exception to this. In addition there was a lot of captured/shared weapons - especially British stuff.



Allied Fighter 2 - There were Hurricans and Spitfires in Burma but I’m not sure what variants fit in the campaign. Help me out here.
Aussies - A lot of Aussies fighting in the British mixed units but no evidence of Owen or Austen SMGs in Burma sadly.
If there’s interest, this proposal will be updated as needed.

[CaptainSebekel]

Bazooka and M20 are confusing.
Also tanks is a important topic which should be discussed.
But still like it.
Pls any Asian campaign with anyone but not US. Dont need 27191th Iwo Jima.

[JoJoMaster420]

Actually a great idea for a pacific campaign without having to deal with the USA x Japan balancing issues.

[Sgt_Pinback]

I was honestly thinking this same thing.

Very under represented in games.

[SoddenJStar]

Would be great to see some South East Asian fighting in a WWII game, I think Enlisted could pull it off well, cool dense jungle maps.

[aizenns]

What a nice idea, I support it!

[aizenns]

@CaptainSebekel

Also tanks is a important topic which should be discussed.

Perhaps M3 Stuart is good for Japanese. Literally it was the best Japanese tank used in the battle.
Japanese captured lots of M3 Stuart and organized tank units equipped with it on Burma and Philippines. Different to other domestic Japanese tanks it is easy to training it, and had excellent performance.

Although it is quite inferior to M3 Lee and M4 Sherman, so if try to make balanced game devs need to implement unhistorical tank or limit British tanks.

[Bananas_Akimbo]

Excellent. I am also a proponent of the paciific theatre, but this is even better.

The only campaign in the far east, that I would prefer, is the Battle of Shanghai, because it has two entirely new factions, that are somewhat evenly matched (Japanese vs. best equipped Chinese troops).

[秋YUI绘_Beaver食過炸蛋]

A few notes, as I am also currently working on my own Burma proposal up to level 40.

Firstly machine Guns. There is no point in having the Johnson LMG and the Type 11 when you can achieve perfect parity by going Vickers-Berthier vs Type 96, Bren Mk II vs Type 99, Lewis vs Type 92 and Lewis with 92 round drum vs Type 92 with 92 round drum. Japan and the Commonwealth forces have the rarity of having basically perfect parity when it comes to LMGs, and it would be a shame to not use it.

Next aircraft. You don’t need captured US Hawks for the Japanese or Buffalos for the Allies, the Battle of Meiktila and Mandalay is in 1945, so you can use the Kawasaki Ki 61 and the A6M5, as well as Hurricanes, Spitfires, Thunderbolts, Mosquitoes and the like, although I would still include the P-40 Warhawk because it did see service there.

Next, tanks. I would not do the Allied tanks anywhere close to what you did, as the Sherman would literally be unstoppable. I’ll share what what I have done for the proposal I’ve been working on.
Tanker I: M8 Greyhound or Humber Mk IV AC vs Type 95 Ha-Go
Tanker I: Daimler Mk II AC vs Type 97 Chi-Ha
Tanker II: Stuart III vs Type 97 Chi-Ha Kai
Tanker II: M3 Grant vs Type 2 Ho-I or Type 3 Ho-Ni III
Tanker III: Valentine I vs Type 1 Chi-He
Couple of notes before I move on. Firstly, Indian light cavalry divisions made good use of the Daimler and Humber armored cars in Burma, which with their inclusion renders the need for ahistorical tanks like the M2a4 naught. I have cannot find any records of the M8 greyhound in Burma, but the Humber is not modeled in War Thunder, where this games steals most of its vehicle models from, so thats why I have not decided which of the two should go there yet. Secondly the Type 3 Ho-Ni III and the Type 2 Ho-I. Both were actually built, but the Type 3 Ho-Ni III was only reported in the Philippines and the Type 2 never left the home islands. I am unsure which one would be a better match for the Grant, as the Ho-Ni is quite similar to the M41 Semovente in Tunisia, that match has been complained about to no end, but it is more historical than the Ho-I. Also, there is no point in using the Type 1 Ho-Ni, as everywhere the Type 1 was, the Type 3 also saw service and having an open top casemate in this game will not end well. Finally the Valentine and the Chi-He. The Chi-He has the hull of the Ho-I and Chi-Nu, with the turret of the Chi-Ha Kai, albeit with extra armor welded onto the front, although some Chi-Ha Kais were noted as having this upgrade. This tank never left the home islands again, but when it comes to Japanese armor in the latter part of any future campaign, you are going to have to sacrifice some things for a balanced campaign. The reason I chose to match it to the Valentine instead of the Sherman is for two reasons. firstly, the Type 1 47mm guns on the Chi-Ha Kai and Chi-He can pen the front hull of a Valentine I easily from 200m, while the 47mm struggles against even the M4a1 Sherman’s front armor at point blank, neverminded any of the welded hulls. Secondly, the 2 pounder on the Valentine, works similarly to the 47mm where it can easily pen the hull, but struggles on the turret of the Chi-He.

Finally, the units. The politics around China are far too volatile right now to warrant the inclusion of Chinese units, and they also were not at Mandalay and Meiktila. I would also tone it back on the Americans to mayble a single fighter squadron, as they were mostly only there in the form of air support, similar to the British on Okinawa. I would also not name the Axis side the United Axis Powers, as all forces involved were fighting for the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere, a mainly Japanese idea. Call it either Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere forces or Imperial Japanese forces

[Kolto]

Thanks for responding. This campaign is hard since it spans from 1941-1945 so I think campaign progression should represent the passage of time. I’ll edit the original post later since I got a bunch of pics I want to add and that will take some time. So to address:

1. M2A4 - One of the pics I had erroneously labeled a Stuart as an M2A4 so thanks for pointing that out. I’ll dig around some more since China had some weird stuff like CTLS that were supposedly declined but there’s pieces of evidence that they received and used some anyways so maybe there’s proof out there. Like I said in OP, the Chinese had Renault ZBs running around Burma too. Weird war.
2. LMGs - The Type 11 and Johnson LMGs were widespread in the theater. I believe it would be wrong to nix such iconic weapons for the sake of symmetrical balance. Especially since the game generally has asymmetrical balance (the snipers in Moscow for instance).
3. China - Political censorship is a big problem, The Eight Hundred didn’t do so well in China, right? But I think this game is going to pick China eventually be it Shanghai or something else so we might as well give them proper representation. A lot of people want it and will pay for it. X and Y Force of the Chinese nationalists were huge contributors to the war effort all throughout the fighting in Burma. While the Brits took Mandalay, the Chinese were taking the Burma Road (Besides, it’s one map in a very big campaign we can make concessions right?).
4. Americans - While it’s true that the Americans held a relatively small part, they were still doing work. Detachment 101 at the end of the war had 10,000 well armed Burmese Rebels running around and Merril’s Marauders did their part as well. Honestly though the Brits don’t have another applicable sniper (we shouldn’t be pulling a P14 sniper out of our butts) and I feel the Brits fit in for Fighter 2 better since their planes are better.
5. Planes and Tanks - Again it’s hard to decide whether we’re doing early or late war vehicles or both. The British had a ton of Buffalos early war and the Americans had a few too before they all ditched them for the good stuff. I brought up the Hawks for the Axis because the Thai purchased them before war broke out and fielded them throughout the war. IDK tho maybe the Thai airforce should be a premium squad (maybe you could make the same argument for the American Banshees). I only put the Sherman because it was the big boy tank at the end. The balance probably would be too messed up.
6. United Axis Powers - That’s what Tunisia uses (or something similar) and it’s probably going to stick unfortunately.
   Thanks for all the help.

[秋YUI绘_Beaver食過炸蛋]

I would pick a time frame and stick with it, like 1945 if you did the Battle of Mandalay and Meiktila or 1944 if you did the Battle of Imphal or Battle of Kohima. Also, the Type 11 LMG seems better for premium squad, and maybe you could put the Johnson there too.
As for China, you can never predict what the party will do when it comes to representing the nationalists, and even if you do meet their requests, you risk alienating the Taiwanese audience, which the game is incredibly popular in for some reason. Getting China right without taking a financial hit is next to impossible, so the devs will likely avoid it.

[aizenns]

Several news films of Burma front from NHK.
These films contain Japanese propagandas, but perhaps some people will be interested.

Films

<June 1942> Victory at the border between Burma and China (Wanding, town on the Burma road)

<May 1942> Fall of Yenangyaung

<Sep 1942> Parade of Burma Defense Force, lead by Aung San (Japanese pupet army)

<Dec 1942> Inspection at Burma by General Terauchi

<April 1943> Battles on North Burma (Battels on Hengduan Mountains)

<August 1943> Independence of Burma

<Dec 1943> Anti-Aircraft Batteries of Rangoon

<Jan 1944> Burma Front (with Indian National Army / Bombing on Chattogram

<Mar 1944> Burma-Indian Front (Battle of Imphal)

<Apr 1944> Siege of British Indian 7th Division (Battle of the Admin Box)

<May 1944> Burma-Indian Front (Battle of Admin Box)

<May 1944> Burma-Indian Front (Battles of freighter boats and armored gun boats on the river)

<Feb 1945> Air raid at Rangoon by B-29

<August 1946> Gurkha soldiers who famous for the Burma Campaign guard the Imperial Palace

I’m interested that Burma campaigns contain not only battles on jungle but also mountains, hills and oil fields. I believe such battlefields are interesting for game.

[Kolto]

Quick update, have confirmed the presence of M2A4 Tanks in Burma. Though the Chinese received 233 of these it’s been practically impossible to find any photos or info about what happened to them (even though we can account for the Renault ZBs of all things which survived Burma and were later captured by the communists). However the British fielded 36 of them with the 7th Hussars and 2nd Royal Tank Regiment in Burma. There was even confirmed combat with the 7th Armoured Brigade.

Also, great reference aizenns! It’s hard to find anything Axis so whatever you can dig up is appreciated.

Also Ho-Ni 1 and 2 saw confirmed action in Burma. Couldn’t find anything on Type 3 but it’s in war thunder and honestly better for the game.

I’ll keep the time period ambiguous for the time being.

[aizenns]

@Kolto

Also Ho-Ni 1 and 2 saw confirmed action in Burma. Couldn’t find anything on Type 3 but it’s in war thunder and honestly better for the game.

Well, surely one prototype of Ho-Ni I deployed to 14th tank regiment to test performance at southern jungle, but I couldn’t find mention about Ho-Ni II at Burma…
At least, Type 3 medium tank had never sent to overseas.