BF 110C-7 or JU 87 R-2? Moscow

Hi Everyone,

I am curious if it would be worth it to either upgrade the BF 110 C-7, or purchase/use a gold order to get the unique skinned one fully upgraded?

Or would it be better just to wait until I am at the campaign level to unlock the JU 87 R-2, and focus on upgrading that one?

I do enjoy flying and providing close air support, and it looks like the JU 87 R-2 has a larger bomb load.

I am currently about 3/4 of the way through level 23, and have premium account alone with elite battle pass.

I have been focusing on the Moscow campaign, but have played the Normandy one a few times because of the battle pass tasks. I already used my gold order for the pz IIIj, which I am enjoying quite a bit!

Thanks in advance for any opinions and thoughts on this.

there is almost no difference between 2x250kg and the 500kg. they are both essentially glorified hand granades. but the bf 110 c-7 can be used quite effectively as a fighter (and it occupies the fighter slot for some reason) as it beats anything but the yak and the MiG. and the R-2 is about as affective in fighting as a brick thrown from the rooftops. as the guns, turn rate and engine power is shit. i have used the R-2 quite a bit and from experience i can tell you that the moment a soviet player spawns in a plane, regardless of which one, you are dead. so i personally prefer the C-7 but it might be dependent on play style i dont know

there is also the fact that the R-2 requires maybe around 100 silver orders to get maxed while you can max the C-7 with a single gold order

Pretty much what @114857834 said.

However, now that bombs are weakers it’s important to choose wich play style you prefer while using attackers planes:

  • Focus on infantry and points, while being able to defend yourself a bit vs soviet planes? Bf110.

  • focus specifically on soviet uparmoured tanks such as the t50? the last stuka with it’s 500kg bomb. Because to explode such tanks you need as much bomb power as you can (due to bomb nerf). Keep in mind that this plane is now mostly used as a kamikaze one, since it cannot really defend itself if there’s any enemy plane up.

it is really a shame that the only way to make certain planes a viable strat is to suicide into annoying tanks

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Amen…

I only keep an attacker plane on German side in Moscow for that. Some tanks (t50 and valentine) often cannot be taken out at all in some scenarios. It’s especially true in the new (amazing) map, quarry. Tanks often stay at the far extremities and just gun down infantry. They’re invulnerable at such distance to anything but bombs…

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bombing tanks is really weird aswell. all bombs will kill any tank if hit directly (including 50kg’s) but the 500kg wont kill a tank if its more than 4 meters away after the nerf. this is why the C-7 is bad against tanks, because the bombs spread out in such a way that even if a tank is directly in the middle of the two bombs, it most likely will not die because of the shit kill radius. so i have debated just completely removing attackers from my lineup and replacing it with a bf 109 honestly, as they are fast and easy to aim

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This is all really good information!

I hate to admit it, but I can’t shake any bogey from my tail, I once was shot down in my 109 by an il2…

Any tips on maneuvers or best practices? I try to gain air speed, then convert it to altitude, but it seems like the enemy planes keep up just find and shoot me down.

I don’t get into circle turn fights with them either…

Should I be using the combat flaps?

annnny tips or techniques you use to be a better dog fighter and or shake enemies from your tail would be greatly appreciated!!

Those tactics you named there by building altitude and speed are usefull in War Thunder. But dont work in enlisted. Altitude and speed/energy will most of the time make you overshoot your target and put you in a turn fight anyways as a quick precise burst from above is not nearly enough to kill aircraft in enlisted (except for the biplane)

You have to try to spot the enemy first, as that is the biggest advantage you can have in game. If you see a plane. And you know it doesnt see you. Try to follow it until it flies straight to either bomb or resupply. If you are then able to get directly behind him at maybe 100 meters or less distance (while he is still flying straight) you will be able easily kill him by spraying him full of bullets. This is the most effective way of killing someone in a plane from my experience

In turnfights with the bf 109 you should most definetly use combat flaps (using 1 and 2 on the ketboard to switch flaps i think). But be careful as the bf 109 combat flaps cant take much more than 400 TAS. And if you try to use them at for example 500 the flaps will explode of the wings making you turn even worse. If the turn fight lasts a while, to the point where you drop under 300 TAS, you can even take this a step further by engaging takeoff flaps making you turn like crazy but lose speed slightly quicker. This might break stalemates but also might stall you if you still cant outturn him. But this will in fact easily outturn any unexperienced players not using this themselves

Turnfights where you and your apponent have similar turn rates might in some cases last multiple minutes of «who is going to give up first». At this point it is completely up to you if you will try to disengage when you think you have the oppertunity, actually wait untill he gives in. Or just pressing escape and suicide (if he did not hit you he will not get the kill)

It is important to note that NO MATTER HOW HARD YOU TRY YOU WILL NEVER OUTTURN A BIPLANE. So dont even attempt this. Biplanes are slow. So 90% of the time you will see them first. Since they are extremely fragile you can more often than not take them out in one precise burst if you use any plane with a 20 mm. And if he sees you first or you fuck up the initial attack, try to go as close to the ground as you can (converting altitude into speed) and outrun it before it is on your tail. Since they have rather weak guns, even if they are directly behind you spraying into your backside. You will more often than not be able to react turn away before you take any significant damage

Speaking of getting shot in the back. If you are in a fighter, your best shot is to immedietly take a hard turn (using flaps or altitude to your advantage depending on the situation, as you can turn very quickly by diving at an angle downwards). Then use c to see out the side which plane it is. If it is a fighter, you cannot outrun it and will have to engage in a lenghty turnfight. If it is a biplane, try to outrun it. And if it is a bomber, quickly dispose of the heretic by outturning him in an instant (with combat flaps) and pumping him full of lead.

If you are getting shot in the back and you are in a bf 110 C-7 you should also deploy combat flaps and try to turn. The same rules apply here as with the bf 109. Except for the fact that if it is a fighter that is shooting at you, you are just dead

If you are getting shot and you are in a Ju 87 (or the bf 110 against a fighter). The best thing to do is to tilt the the aircraft up and down. As in a sinus curve. This will make it so that the enemy aircraft will only land a few hits every couple of seconds, instead of hitting you constantly if you try to turn of fly straight. Now you just have to hope that the enemy runs out of bullets before you die. Which sucks but to my knowledge this is the only way to actually sometimes survive getting shot in the back without tailgunners in the game, hopefully they will add them soon. keodaddy plz. But the method is actually very effective against planes with low caliber guns that need multiple hundred hits like the biplane or I-16. and sometimes it works on the yak since it has very little in terms of 20 mm ammo.

Hope some of this helps. Its 1:23 in the morning and i need to be up in a few so i wrote this as fast as i can, so i dont have much time for proof reading and such. So hopefully some of this makes sense atleast

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Bingo!
Those are invaluable during dogfighting: turning them on will allow you to make sharper turns, and slow your speed a bit.

Beware! If you dive and have too much speed while flsps are on, they will break.

Edit: damn. @114857834 was much faster and thorough in his explanation :sweat_smile:

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They actually break in game at the speed it says they will break on in the war thunder wiki incase you wonder when to use which flaps

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Just doing my best at helping the german flying community :grin:. You are welcome to correct me anywhere you think something is off. As what i wrote was written rather quickly and i am done on the forum for tonight

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I advice you to wait a little for the plane damage rework (current Pol on air topic).
Might change how planes behave and then, you make your mind on what you trully want.

There’s still 60 days of batlepass left. I would advice to wait a little. Every 15 consecutive days, you can have a chance to get another golden vehicle order. Who knows :3

I mostly play Moscow now - Tunisia I find pretty boring :frowning:

Rarely see 110’s or 109’s, and when I do they are usually dead (sic) easy to shoot down because the pilots just fly straight lines even when under fire. Stuka pilots seem to wriggle and try to evade a lot more than fighter pilots do!!

Last 109 kill I got was with the I-153 last night, but Il-2 do most of the damage for me. Probably haven’t seen a 110 for 3 or 4 weeks.

I do have the Premium 109E-7 for Germany for my Axis side - which I don’t use much - but when I do use it I have no trouble shooting down any Soviet a/c with it. (haven’t got to the ordinary 109F yet)

As always it is the top 2 inches (50mm) of the player that matters much more than the equipment!!

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For me Ju-87 B-2 is better. I can even fight IL-2s and down (if they are bad since IL-2 is a very tanky plane) and fought some stupid Yak pilots and killed them too with this stupid plane lol However as I said I find Ju-87 B-2 a better support for your ground troops than R-2. Back to topic Bf 110C-7 all day.

This. Take these notes. I have a feeling a lot of players don’t know about 1 and 2 keys for using flaps and their purpose in dogfight and even attacker planes. Can save your life if your opponet is not aware of these things.

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2x250 is better than 1x500 in my opinion and experience. Manytimes, 500kg bombs will only cause a huge particle affects and a huge lag, and few kills, just because of a small terrain issue.
Also C7 is a buggy plane since game considered as its a fighter not an attacker (does they fixed it now?)
Also R2 has poor AA ability while C7 has a decent AA ability.

Thank you everyone for all the advice, never did I expect this thread to turn into such a helpful resource!!

I did end up getting the BF110 due to the advice, and because I am a Luftwaffe fanboy, so having a limited edition skin is always something that will suck dollars out of my pocket.

One thing that I noticed was the flying stats seem slightly worse for the fully upgraded bf 110… is that because of the mass that was added for structural integrity? Or is it a bug? Or am I simply not reading it correctly.

I really hope they will implement hotas support soon for flying as well, since keyboard and mouse flying is kind of wonky and has taken some time for me to at least keep the plane in the air.

I think once they implement the rear seat gunner, the whole “air meta” will change up a bit too.

glad we could be of help

upgrading planes doesnt do much in terms of stats right now. the only thing you might actually notice a slight differance in is engine power/climb rate. but the skin is cool so its worth

oh yes baby. FW 189 A-1 with its 2 defensive gunners will be the best fighter in moscow :sunglasses:


FW 189 supremacy baby

cooooooooool!